You are missing something. Teraflex came up with the design for the CAs to pivot in the center, then DSE came out with their UCAs in the rear and claimed it was so innovative... 360 degrees of articulation! Because our rearends move 360degrees.. yea..
Do some research. They STOPPED making the design DSE used because they found a method they felt worked better. Why have 3 pivot points and complicate the geometry vs. 2 on 1 control arm. Not only that, but it makes no sense to promote it pivoting in the center when it ultimately has the pickup point at the mounting hole.
You wouldn't welcome Mark on the board. Just like I've been told that a certain vendor is pissy that I mention a company that sells other products that many have come to view as more desirable.
Nice post Mark! I see you are resorting to bashing and trying to discredit someone who done nothing to you nor ever said a bad thing about you or your products.. Nice way to conduct yourself in such a professional manner but since you brought my name into this via another member and you attempted to discredit Myself and DSE I will be more than happy to take the time to put out the Truth so other members don't continue to get brainwashed with your misinformation and professional business tactics..
I think You & Mark are also missing something here! Why was "innovative" even brought up? Why was what DSE, hotchkis, helwig even brought up into this mans thread? Just curious why all the bashing and trying to prove who stole what has become part of this thread? Childish if you ask me.... Funny how I don't bash and never did bash SC&C or the products but still I end up getting it from him and his people who like to come here and "Promote" him and his products...
Where are DSE's CAD designs? Where are the data logs from their in-house testing? How did they arrive at their decision to market the products they do? 850$ for rear UCA and LCAs??! You kidding me?! I understand not wanting people to steal your design (even if you stole it from a company that came out with it 10 years ago) however you can at least show us the programs you use or simulations youve done to justify your designs.
Like DSE would show you or Mark their CAD designs! LOL Their winning on all the Auto-X / Road courses all across the country Proves their testing, Period! Where is SC&C? Where is SPC at these events that showcase their prodcuts and prove they work?
Here is one for you, I called John Fay of the fays2 watts link himself and spoke to him about buying the watts link for the g-body. I told him that I was interested in buying it but I was kind of skeptical over a $600 price tag and was wondering if there has been any testing to prove that it worked like people "SAY" it does. I asked if there are any before & after video's of it on a g-body or any suspension dyno results or testing that proves it to work..John's reply was "NO, we don't have any kind of testing done for the g-body but if you call Mark at SC&C he can tell you more about it than me" I was kind of shocked to here the owner and the man who makes it not know more than Mark and have no testing done on the Fays watts link..
People have been banned for promoting SC&C because they sell products others view as more desirable than overpriced run-of-the-mill stuff.
Not sure about people getting banned but they have been told NOT to promote ANY company. Promoting is the same as advertising here or anywhere else and what those people do not understand is it's not me that get's pissed It's the owner because people are breaking the board rules.. Hell I went through this myself when I started selling LED taillights and even though NO other vendor here sold LED's I was targeted as PROMOTING a product that was being sold and instead of pointing fingers, accusing people of this or that, I just paid my dues and became a vendor just like everyone else.
I have no doubts the SPC 2 arms original design was taken from something else. That doesn't matter that it was for another car. They still had to reconfigure and design it to work for the Gbody chassis.
So if the products sc&c sells were also taken from someone else why is it you or Mark feel the need to bash others for doing Exactly what he did years ago? IF DSE took the design from Terraflex (keep in mind your post above) and re-designed it to fit the application of cars instead of Jeeps or 4X4's so IF this is true then they done EXACTLY what Mark did years ago! Why is it no one is on public forums pointing fingers at him for copying? Cause no one cares like Mark does! It's okay for him but not for others?
Mark never says you have to buy from him, and even will tell you places to get other similar stuff cheaper. He doesn't have to sell you on his products, because people know they work.
The same goes for me, I never tell anyone to buy from me and I stop people all the time from buying stuff they don't need. I nor do DSE have to sell you on these products because the "Products" sell them selves along with the accomplishments of each customer out there Proving that the products work.. Curious to know how his customers "Know" they work?
You ever think what a coincidence it was that DSE had a "test vehicle" once Scott became a vendor?
Shows what people really know and since this is the belief out there being spread around I will be more than happy to shed some TRUE light to this comment.... DSE had a test car (Monte Carlo SS) LONG before my car even came into the picture that ALL of their G-Body line of products were tested on. They were tested on their MCSS long before ever going into production and my car came along AFTER the production of the parts Only to be used as the Test car for fitment on the Buick Regals as there are some differences between the two with the turbo cars. Our car was used in their catalog as it was more photogenic at the time seeing the DSE MCSS test car wasn't ready to be in a catalog..
What were they testing on before he came along?
Their own MCSS test car! Just because the DSE's G-Body line came out with our car pictured in the catalog doesn't mean that our car was the ONLY test car... This is a Perfect example of how rumors get started and BS get's spewed all over the place... Get the Facts straight before bashing on people or other company's!!
How many races was Scott competing in before he became a vendor for DSE?
Don't know why I have to defend myself here but since this is obviously a personal issue with someone I will clear the air in hopes that this BS stops being spread around like a 10yr old would do... I have been to a bunch as a matter of fact and was Autocrossing my old GN well before Kyle even came out with the G-Body products! But yes I still consider myself a Novice at Auto-X and still learning.
I was holding this information back out of respect for Mark and his company but since I am shown no respect I will let everyone in on something.. I can tell you at the last Pro-touring event (RTTH7) I competed against 3-4 cars that were equipped with SC&C products, stage 2 and all the goodies that correct the geometry the correct or Only way and take a guess what the outcome was? Yep, this Novice Beat every one with the DSE equipped 3,600lb Buick 6-cylinder Brick! And I even run just the regular DSE gas replacement shocks - No Coil overs! No AFX spindles!! Pretty good huh?
Would be quite interesting if he got free parts from DSE, then became a vendor, and because he got those free parts and drives his car, that qualifies DSE to say "we test all our products on our own cars", wouldn't it?
I would if that was true but this is just another one of those lies being spread around simply because people have no clue.. Look for one minute at ANY Pro-touring event and you will see DSE, Hotchkis, Ridetech, and others TESTING their products every weekend all year long. Where is SC&C at these events? Where is SC&C at SEMA showcasing their new products?
I wonder if that might just be the case... I'm curious how many test vehicles DSE has.
I will be happy to help you out with that since again you don't know.... Here is a link to all the DSE test cars pictured...
Detroit Speed, Inc. - Product Applications
I'm completely Disgusted in the actions shown here by a business man and people who only believe what they hear or read in a book. These internet forums and some of the people that periodically pop up just leave me disgusted to say the least. There are obvious ulterior motives and obvious internal issues with some that need help. To me there is No Other place that Proves how well ANY product works than on the track! That is where the BS stops and the proof begins so please people, take some time and look around and see what company's are doing with their products before you decide on your purchase. I never tell anyone they
have to buy from us. I just like seeing a person out there having fun with their car and using it for what it was built for, I could care less who's products are under it as long as they work for him and they are happy doing it.. I could care less who copied who, I could care less about all that childish discrediting crap...
I think it's only fair that these posts get sent to the respectful owners of these companies so that they know who and what is being said about their company.
Have a nice day,
Scot W.
And no, they've never made parts for other than four wheel drive vehicles to the best of my knowledge.:biggrin:
