Blew up top end I think (1987 GN)

[ericmccann]

The biggest problem I'm having right now is determining what is and what is not stock on this motor.

How much do you want for the 36# injectors?

Oh, and I have an Accufab FP regulator, not installed. Sorry I forgot to mention that. But, that's probably exactly one of the 'must-have' components.

The Wastegate is adjustable. You can see by looking here: IMG_8805 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I also have the electronic (I have a digital dash) boost gauges connected and functioning. I also have an Autometer boost/vac gauge mounted on an accessory gauge mount on the drivers side pillar. The electronic gauge only saw yellow, and I was watching the autometer boost/vac gauge when this happened and it only read 10#'s.

After just now looking at the other gauges (all Stewart Warner gauges), those were oil pressure, water temperature, and oil temperature.

I did find wiring for these gauges under the radio console. I suspect that this car had been beaten up a bit by one of the two PO's. I suspect that it's the first PO who bought the car new in 1987 and owned it up until sometime in early 2006.

Thank you for not taking offense to my previous message. I'm glad that we're on the same page. Please also understand that I DO appreciate your kind and well-thought advice. Your mechanical knowledge of these engines will forever surpass mine, but I just felt like I needed to make it clear where I was comoing from in terms of this car as a project.

I'm going to buy an intake plate, as you suggested, I'm also going to have to buy a scanmaster, unfortunately. Maybe I should move my Innovate Morotsports Wideband O2 LC-1 assembly over to the GN from one of my other Italian cars?

Thoughts?

Best,

Eric McCann

 

[JST A 6]

How much do you want for the 36# injectors?

PM sent...:smile:

As for the wideband O2, you're a step ahead of me there as I've never gotten into that as of yet...maybe someday in the not-too-distant future. Only thing I know about it is you have to weld a bung into the downpipe to mount the O2 sensor post-turbo...

 

[JST A 6]

I'll tell you what Eric,

For the price I gave you in my PM about the injectors I'll also throw in the Caspers Ultrachip, that way you have something to put in there to get you started until you get something better (most anybody on here will recommend Turbo Tweak). The Caspers chip is useless to me now anyway with the 50 pounders and TT chip installed in my car. As far as replacing the chip, if you've never done one it's real easy--just kill power to the ECM by unplugging the small orange wire coming off the positive terminal on the battery, and touch a piece of bare metal on the car to discharge any static you're carrying around with you. Pull the old chip out and press the new one in--it'll only go in there one way so don't try to force it too much. The instructions for the Caspers chip will be included; it'll tell you the highest thumbwheel setting you can safely use on pump gas (#4 if memory serves).

 

[BlackBandit]

ericmccan, what injectors do you have right now? I noticed whomever had the car before you upgraded other stuff, maybe they did the injectors to. FWIW if you plan on staying around stock bluetops are good injectors.

 

[ericmccann]

I currently have stock injectors. Just checked. Part number 0 280 150 218.

I think whoever tried to 'modify' or 'enhance' this thing before me was totally clueless.

Here are some pictures with the intake off:

Grand National - blown head gasket - a set on Flickr

Notice, only the drivers side center cylinder was blown. The ring blew out so hard that it wrapped around the pushrod. See pictures. I found a big chunk of head gasket in the cam valley too.

Trying to get the accessory brakets off right now. What a PITA that is. Worst part so far. Ugh!

Still plugging away.

Best,

Eric

 

[ericmccann]

Found an old-school aftermarket chip in the ECM just now...

...and the plot thickens with this little chip I found in the ECM. This must be some old-school stuff here. Does anyone know what this is?

Here's a picture: IMG_8825 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Any thoughts are appreciated. Check out the copyright date on this thing! Circa 1991!

I'm currently looking up this "PIT BULL" chip right now.

Best,

Eric McCann

 

[ericmccann]

Screenless stock MAF sensor w/turbotweak chip, do I need to change MAF sensors?

While looking through the turbotweak site, I noticed that a screenless stock MAF sensor is not a good thing due to calibration issues. My MAF sensor is stock and is also screenless.

Assuming that I install 36# injectors with a stock throttle body, does this mean that I need to buy a new MAF sensor (since my current stock MAF is screenless) if using the turbotweak chip?

If so, which MAF sensor should I get, assuming a stock throttle body?
How much are the newer style MAF sensors?
Where do I find such an item on-the-cheap?

I'm on a SUPER TIGHT budget at the moment so I need to find the best possible price on a known good performing MAF, assuming I'm using 36# injectors.

If anyone has these components which they want to rid themselves of, please let me know. I need them.

Any and all advice is most certainly appreciated.

Best,

Eric McCann

 

[JST A 6]

Eric

Did you ever check what I mentioned about the injector harness melting/shorting out against the EGR valve causing that injector to not work? Just curious about what you found since you blew the gasket at the #3 cylinder, and incidentally that injector is right next to the EGR valve...

 

[DragulaGN]

...and the plot thickens with this little chip I found in the ECM. This must be some old-school stuff here. Does anyone know what this is?

Here's a picture: IMG_8825 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Any thoughts are appreciated. Check out the copyright date on this thing! Circa 1991!

I'm currently looking up this "PIT BULL" chip right now.

Best,

Eric McCann

This is an ATR chip for stock injectors

 

[TLIMITED]

While looking through the turbotweak site, I noticed that a screenless stock MAF sensor is not a good thing due to calibration issues. My MAF sensor is stock and is also screenless.

Assuming that I install 36# injectors with a stock throttle body, does this mean that I need to buy a new MAF sensor (since my current stock MAF is screenless) if using the turbotweak chip?

If so, which MAF sensor should I get, assuming a stock throttle body?
How much are the newer style MAF sensors?
Where do I find such an item on-the-cheap?

I'm on a SUPER TIGHT budget at the moment so I need to find the best possible price on a known good performing MAF, assuming I'm using 36# injectors.

If anyone has these components which they want to rid themselves of, please let me know. I need them.

Any and all advice is most certainly appreciated.

Best,

Eric McCann

Hey Eric,The stock mass air has two screens,most people take one out for a little more airflow,I'll check to see if I have a screen and retainer so you can continue to use your mass air!!!

 

[bmackinnon]

Yep, ATR Pit Bull... pretty popular 17 years ago God I'm old! Old school, high timing, detonation causing chip. Definitely time to upgrade..

Edit: I'd put both screens back in if you can get 'em. The calibration will be more accurate, and less 'noisy' from flow turbulence w/ both of 'em in. GM engineers didn't put them in there for $hits and giggles. The flow loss from the screens is insignificant. Believe most chip guys would agree. My O2...

 

[wildcard]

This was my thought as well, he may want to try a compression check first. If the piston let go then head gaskets will be the least of his problem.

Never seen a blown headgasket push oil out the motor unless it blew into the vally. Other causes may be rings or a hole in a piston.

Pull the plugs. They have a story to tell.

 

[JST A 6]

This was my thought as well, he may want to try a compression check first. If the piston let go then head gaskets will be the least of his problem.

He's already got it torn down...

 

[ericmccann]

Heads are now finally off the block and upon initial inspection, the hardware looks amazingly good. Can still easily see the cross-hatching on all of the cylinder walls. and no leak-down from anti-freeze pooling up in the cylinders during head removal. Pistons look perfect. Head looks just fine too so I'm thinking that I have a good base to start with. The motor was really solid mechanically before this happened. Hard to say if this motor has been taken apart before. I don't think it has, but I could be wrong. Everthing was where it was supposed to be upon dis-assembly. Nothing missing.

I do, however have a question. The head bolts say "SRS" on the heads of the bolts. Are these stock head bolts? That would be a good sign of whether the motor has been torn down before.

Thanks!

Eric McCann

 

[DragulaGN]

Id almost pull the whole thing out and look at the main and rod bearing. Detonation will beat them to pieces

 

[turbofabricator]

Eric,
You MUST also remove the oil pan and remove all the graphite material from the oil pick-up screen. If you skip this step, you WILL pay for it later with a crank grind, new bearings and a bore/hone. Do NOT skip this step. I have seen LOTS of engines fail after head gaskets are replaced with out cleaning the oil pump pick-up screen. At the level of dissassembly you are at, I would pull the engine out and inspect it carefully. YOu are only about 1/2hr-1 hour away from complete removal. This way you can also assemble the engine on a stnad and do it right.

 

[Sleeper-6]

Yes, SPS is the maker of the stock head bolts. They are a torque-to-yeild bolt and should not be re-used. It would be best to replace them with bolts or studs from ARP, or at the least new stock bolts.

 

[ericmccann]

Thanks for the feedback on the SRS bolts. I just today recieved my 12 pt. ARP head bolts. Yay!

I will remove the oil pan as well. I debated on that, but the little voice in my head said "Eric, take the friggin' oil pan off too, you dummy! Don't be an idiot!" I've sprayed enough chemicals down the cam valley and poured a liberal amount of oil down there too to take some of the grit away.

Heads are cleaned up, block deck is cleaned up, razor-scraped all mating surfaces, while using brake parts cleaner (super powerful stuff right there). The brake parts cleaner really helps to liquify the remaining head gasket material so it comes off in clumps of slop, rather than flakes. A good 150+ PSI shot with the air sprayer to clear out the cylinders and cam valley (and head ports) cleans up the remaining gasket debris quite nicely.

I'm hoping to be in assembly mode tonight. Waiting on some top-end components (mainly 36# injectors), but nothing that will prevent me from getting the heads and intake on.

Thanks everyone for your kind assistance.

Things are going exactly to plan thanks to all of your help.

One other thing... based on the head gasket material trace on the head, it looks like maybe the head was never properly torqued on the center cylinder from day 1. The area around that cylinder was WAY too clean - even despite the fact that that is the cylinder that blew out.

Just an observation.

Best,

Eric McCann

 

[ericmccann]

I will not be pulling the engine for a few reasons.

#1 I have no engine stand
#2 I have no engine hoist
#3 I have no money left to spend on this

When I got this car, 14 days ago to this date, I was mostly concerned about missing or unsightly trim, emblems, radio (bought the Syclone CD player radio), center console faceplate, lighting, and other ancilliaries. Then I ended up having to buy a new ICM, Coil pack, IAT (intake air temperature sensor), AC Delco plugs, AC delco wires, O2 sensor, etc.

Before this engine issue happened, I had apready spent a solid $1500 - $2000. I need to gather my reciepts. Then with this, I've managed to get by pretty cheap by buying gaskets, [injectors, new(old) chip - from 'just a 6' - who is an awesome guy], etc.

Pulling the motor, for ME, means a complete restoration of the car. I know it sounds dumb, but with every car I've owned, if I get to a certain point (engine removal), then the car becomes an expensive project, which at this point, I cannot afford. I bought this car to drive and enjoy with my wife and young kids, keep as stock as possible, and appreciate it for what it is.

Best,

Eric McCann

 

[jhanson1750]

With all the stuff sprayed on the deck I would roll the crank around by hand and see what kind of crap you can get out of the bore. The movment of the pistons will leave the crud at the top of the bore and you can easily wipe it out of there. Just a little tip. Jon Hanson