anyone tried this new design Walbro?

[NCTURBOS]

I would like to get to the bottom of this myself.

I have been told by several "GURU'S" that Red's pump is no more than a stocker with some resistance or something like that taken out of it... I have been told it is not good for the longevity of the pump... I don't know. Like I said I would like to get to the bottom of it too...

I feel pretty sure walboro didn't make special pumps for Red...

Shane,

I've got both Red's Xp and XP+ pumps in numerous car over the years. I had one in my own car that I alone put over 70k miles on it. I have yet to hear from one of these guys/gals that they've had any issues. I did just replace a worn out Walbro in a car this past Friday, this was the second time a Walbro went bad... I replaced it with one of Red's Xp+ pumps...

IMHO, Red has always been the leader for direct placement pumps for our cars. He was the first to offer a Walbro pump for our cars as well. And I wouldn't be too sure about them not "making a special pump" with some of his upgrades already done to them.

And yes, Richard did conduct a well thought out test of the pumps... With Red's being superior.


K.

 

[SGRIM]

I have heard the results several times and DO NOT question them at all...

Something just doesn't add up though. I am not knocking Red by any means. Bottom line is a walboro pump is a walboro pump. I don't mean this ugly but I don't see where anyone but maybe one or two vendors could have ordered enough at once to justify a change for one though...

 

[scot w.]

I myself have been buying Red's pumps for years and have installed them in many customers cars and have yet to hear of a failure. My factory Walbro that was in my car when I bought it was bad and it got replaced with a Red's XP pump, It's been great!!

Don't know what Red does to the pumps and people can speculate till there blue in the face but I personally don't think Red is going to devulge his secret on what he really does to them and I don't blame him, just as soon as he does the very people critisizing them would be moding them too! :biggrin:

As long as Richard tested Reds pumps along with regular Walbro's and the Red's pumps came out superior, I will continue to buy and recomend Red's XP pumps!


Scot W.

 

[87GN_70GS]

Richard Clark has tested off-the-shelf Walbros against Reds. He will not say exactly what the differences are but Reds pumps out perform the others. Pretty sure my money is on Richard being correct.

Bryan

Red takes a current production 340 (or 0169 as the case may be) and modifies the pressure relief valve (at first a piece of 10 ga copper wire shimming the spring and tie wrapped to the pump body, then hammer staking the spring and/or checkball, then filling the pressure relief outlet with epoxy). Yes the XP will outperfom a 340 or 0169 above the point at which the pressure relief checkball starts to open. Look at the pump performance graphs, the curves start out almost identical but the difference gets greater as the pressure increases.

 

[JToups386]

There sure seems to be a lot of tit-for-tat in this debate. However, I can attest to the value and performance of anything made/sold by Racetronix. He has actually been rather humble in his remarks by not mentioning his technical background and engineering abilities therein.
The pumps themselves are rather simple devices, and it's not like there is some sort of internal magic that can be performed to make it go from flowing like a garden hose into flowing like a fire hose, aside from making a few tweaks to the relief valve and shimming as mentioned above. Although by jacking w/ the valve you're obviously removing the built-in safety feature it's designed to provide.

Either way, I'm sure Red provides a quality product, as does Racetronix. Personally I've been dealling with Racetronix for many years and they've always provided me with excellent service and support, along with very well designed systems (built using other reputable MFR's components).

As far as Walbro making a "special custom" pump for any one performance shop outlet, there is little likelihood of that happening. Their return on investment (ROI) for doing the special research and development to sell to our small niche market would simply not justify it.

 

[Racetronix]

VooDoo Magic vs. Technical Facts

Please see this graph which shows the flow of a GSS340ME pump with and GSS340M pump without its bypass valve blocked.

 

[Racetronix]

VooDoo Magic vs. Technical Facts

Walbro does not make a special HP pump for Red.
Walbro's largest gear set and most powerful armature are used in the GSS34x, GRJ4xx and F20000169 pumps. Red's pumps are off-the-shelf Walbros.

By blocking the bypass valve you reduce the risk of having debris hang it open. This would show up as reduced to no performance depending how much was being bypassed. The down side it that if there is a restriction in the feed line pressure could build to a dangerous level. It is best not to block the bypass valve. On a test bench minor adjustments can be made to increase the opening pressure without blocking the valve.

 

[Ttype6]

the curves start out almost identical but the difference gets greater as the pressure increases.

Exactly where we need it to perform better.

 

[Phoneguy]

A Walbro pump is crimped closed at the factory so the only external change that can be made is to the pressure bypass valve. Anybody can push this in with a small screwdriver and hammer. To take apart a Walbro pump is to destroy it. Is this worth paying extra $ for?

Actually just getting a complete setup with one call is worth alot. I am not going to debate this with you any longer. You decided to close the last thread. Richard Clark has proven the performance difference. You obviously have a problem with Red selling double pumpers to the masses. The bottom line is Red's pumps are tested in the field and they just flat work. I was going to get your new harness and double pumper setup. I could not even find the right parts on the website. We exchanged several emails about this and your only reply is to send a link. I even asked you for a total price shipped to me for everything I needed and again I am pointed to your website. You could not be bothered with taking care of a sale before it was made what makes me think you would take care of anything after a sale. Being able to actually make a phone call to a vendor that you are making a purchase from is a must. This is not the case with your company. You say that you are a manufacturer not a vendor but you made the choice to sign up on this board to be a paying vendor. Vendors should have phone numbers for contact.
You can call it Voo Doo magic I call it a great product that is very easy to order and install.

Bryan

 

[Racetronix]

Actually just getting a complete setup with one call is worth alot. I am not going to debate this with you any longer. You decided to close the last thread. Richard Clark has proven the performance difference. You obviously have a problem with Red selling double pumpers to the masses. The bottom line is Red's pumps are tested in the field and they just flat work. I was going to get your new harness and double pumper setup. I could not even find the right parts on the website. We exchanged several emails about this and your only reply is to send a link. I even asked you for a total price shipped to me for everything I needed and again I am pointed to your website. You could not be bothered with taking care of a sale before it was made what makes me think you would take care of anything after a sale. Being able to actually make a phone call to a vendor that you are making a purchase from is a must. This is not the case with your company. You say that you are a manufacturer not a vendor but you made the choice to sign up on this board to be a paying vendor. Vendors should have phone numbers for contact.
You can call it Voo Doo magic I call it a great product that is very easy to order and install.

Bryan

Obviously you have concerns that you do not seem to be able to sort out on your own! Please understand the fact that Racetronix is not a retail outlet but supplies dealers that supply to end users such as you. On our web sites you can obtain product information, shipping costs (based on the level of service you choose) and support 24/7. As a manufacture/distributor it is not feasible for us to operate in the same traditional fashion as others on this forum. Our structure allows us to focus on offering our customers better quality, value and range of products. If you prefer to interact with someone over the phone or counter to help make your buying decision we have numerous dealers who also support this forum which would be more than happy to service you with Racetronix providing supplementary support. I am not sure why you cannot contact someone in your vicinity that can and is willing to support you? Racetronix is on the forum in order to provide information and supplementary support when required. Our customers are very happy and are repeat business; they appreciate quality products as well as the service we and the vendors provide. If you need to debate someone else's products please feel free to do so.

 

[87GN_70GS]

Am I reading from the chart that the modified pump has less current draw than the unmodified? Is that just production tolerance for two different pumps?

 

[87GN_70GS]

I am not arguing, just presenting information: Walbro's external pumps, like their 255 lph GSL392, offers very similar performance as the modified releif valve pumps shown above and elsewhere. The fllow vs pressure graphs look almost identical (within reason). These external in-line pumps cannot have a bypass valve as any excess gas would just spew onto the ground.

 

[Phoneguy]

Obviously you have concerns that you do not seem to be able to sort out on your own! Please understand the fact that Racetronix is not a retail outlet but supplies dealers that supply to end users such as you. On our web sites you can obtain product information, shipping costs (based on the level of service you choose) and support 24/7. As a manufacture/distributor it is not feasible for us to operate in the same traditional fashion as others on this forum. Our structure allows us to focus on offering our customers better quality, value and range of products. If you prefer to interact with someone over the phone or counter to help make your buying decision we have numerous dealers who also support this forum which would be more than happy to service you with Racetronix providing supplementary support. I am not sure why you cannot contact someone in your vicinity that can and is willing to support you? Racetronix is on the forum in order to provide information and supplementary support when required. Our customers are very happy and are repeat business; they appreciate quality products as well as the service we and the vendors provide. If you need to debate someone else's products please feel free to do so.

Jack, you can spin this any way that you like. I have no concerns that I can not sort out on my own. Your website sucks! If you came on here to try to sell parts you ought to have a phone number that people can call to decipher your obvious lack of website design. You can't even figure out how to locate all of the turbo Buick specific items that you are trying to sell on the same web page. Pathetic! Its not that I prefer to talk to someone on the phone but when the website is unmanageable you leave people no choice. I could have contacted one of your dealers but it was much easier to call Red. I ordered a double pumper, received a double pumper with the hanger and it was installed in less than an hour. Problem solved!
Keep trying to spin this in a different direction, bottom line is you need a phone number and you just can't seem to understand simple business.
Have a great weekend

Bryan

 

[Racetronix]

Jack, you can spin this any way that you like. I have no concerns that I can not sort out on my own. Bryan

Obviously you DO have issues if thousands of other customers don't seem to have problems getting what they need from our web store and our DEALERS. How many more threads are you going to 'spin' into a diatribe about how Racetronix should be run. Do you have anything of technical merit to add to this thread? Are you enjoying yourself here and the attention you are getting?

''''Phoneguy'''' ....

 

[Phoneguy]

Obviously you DO have issues if thousands of other customers don't seem to have problems getting what they need from our web store and our DEALERS. How many more threads are you going to 'spin' into a diatribe about how Racetronix should be run. Do you have anything of technical merit to add to this thread? Are you enjoying yourself here and the attention you are getting?

''''Phoneguy'''' ....

No issues here Jack other than trying to decipher your website, my Reds double pumper was installed in under an hour including dropping the tank and works just fine. That is actually less time than was spent on your website and emailing back and forth to you trying to get the parts needed to make my own. But this is fun watching you show your true colors here on the forum. Please continue so that more people here can make their own decision as to who they should deal with. You are the one trying to slam another persons fuel pumps that are proven and he is actually pleasant to talk too. Just what technical merit do you bring other than to bad mouth another product and to push your product? It's no wonder that you are not well liked among vendors in the community. Must be that wonderful attitude of yours. Your dealers must be the ones that keep you going, your website sucks.
Want to keep playing here, or are you going to close this thread too?
Your product seems solid as I said before, you just can't seem to get it through your head that I tried to order from you, your website needs lots of attention.


Bryan

 

[Racetronix]

No issues here Jack other than trying to decipher your website, my Reds double pumper was installed in under an hour including dropping the tank and works just fine. That is actually less time than was spent on your website and emailing back and forth to you trying to get the parts needed to make my own. But this is fun watching you show your true colors here on the forum. Please continue so that more people here can make their own decision as to who they should deal with. You are the one trying to slam another persons fuel pumps that are proven and he is actually pleasant to talk too. Just what technical merit do you bring other than to bad mouth another product and to push your product? It's no wonder that you are not well liked among vendors in the community. Must be that wonderful attitude of yours. Your dealers must be the ones that keep you going, your website sucks.
Want to keep playing here, or are you going to close this thread too?
Your product seems solid as I said before, you just can't seem to get it through your head that I tried to order from you, your website needs lots of attention.


Bryan

It is too bad people like you can not see through the smoke and mirrors some vendors use to prop up their products. If you feel posting FACTS about Walbro's pump assembly and a flow graph is an attack on Red then you have some personal issues and perhaps you feel you have to protect him from the truth. I don't see anywhere on this forum where anybody has offered any technical insight into this topic which crops up non-stop. It is easy to fill a customer's ear full of technical information on the phone but let's see that technical information face the scrutiny of our technically savvy forum members. Vendors are more than welcome to sponsor this forum community and elaborate on the merits of their products like everybody else does. Racetronix has very little if nothing to gain from posting this data. As I have said before TR product is Racetronix smallest market and has very little to do with our success. Racetronix caters to this small community b/c of my affinity for my car and the majority of its populous. We have sold over 1000 DP systems in the past couple years just to f-body customers alone. People such as yourself may not like the way I come across b/c I don't sugar coat what I say or pull any punches but at least I speak the truth and the truth hurts some times. Competing vendors badmouthing me or Racetronix is just a measure of how well our products are cutting into their market share. The more they complain the better our business. Some eventually learn that it is more profitable to carry a better more widely accepted product than to prop theirs up by stepping on ours.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/feedback/316325-racetronix.html

 

[killerb]

all i know is Racetronix has ALWAYS given me the best service available!! Racetronics ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biggrin:

 

[grocerygetter]

I got my Racetronix set up 6 years ago and its been great. Really great to deal with actually. I'm one that likes websites...couldn't even find a number for Red at the time...so, I see the other side. But still...both are great vendors.
Heck...I go to Cotton's website before I order something...but I always talk to Jack to get something on the way. LOL...so I guess I like both phone and web help.

 

[bmackinnon]

I don't see where racetronix is 'badmouthing' red's product. It's an obvious, simple, well known fact that all he does is shim/disable the relief valve of an otherwise off the shelf walbro pump. As pointed out, his early product just had a piece of wire shim crammed in there and tie-wrapped, and he has, over time, 'refined' the process (epoxy the relief outlet altogether). The pump curves tell the story, and behave as any relieved vs. non-relieved pump curves would be expected to. Add to that, the fact that a red's double pumper setup probably costs at least double what you could do it yourself for, and one can (should be able to) easily see the advantage of doing a little research for oneself, and purchasing the components at a bargain price from, by most all accounts, a reliable source like racetronix.... nothing wrong with red's product or practice, but seems the best option only if you don't have the wherewithall/desire to do a little work and don't mind spending extra money... or are in a huge hurry for a turnkey setup..