Anybody heard of...

[Googs]

I went to the track tonight, and got turned away. They said the NHRA implimented a new rule earlier this year that states:
As of February 1st all vehicles with an aftermarket power adder, (nitrous, turbocharger, or supercharger) will be required to wear an SFI approved fire jacket.
So, because I have an upgraded turbo, even though it came with one, and no jacket, I wasn't allowed to run. They had no other reason to turn me away. At the present time the car only runs 12's & it has a driveshaft loop.

 

[turbodave231]

I was turned away at an local IHRA track because I didn't have a firejacket. A fellow racer had an extra jacket which saved the day for me. I bought a single layer proban jacket shortly after that.

I'm not sure a 12 sec ride needs a jacket. I'm gonna have to do some research on any new NHRA rules. They add rules during the year that don't get published in the yearly rulebook.

Dave

 

[SilverSleeper]

My local 8th mile requires a fire jacket and helmet for saturday races no matter what you run. Test N Tune requires a helmet even for cars turning 17s in the 1/4. I took my NA PT there just for the fun of it, and was lucky I could borrow a friends helmet. Im not buying a fire jacket just to run on saturdays. Sounds just like my boss at work...make up the rules as you go along. What next?

 

[tom h]

NHRA website lists under "2006 rule revisions"
http://www.nhra.com/apcm/templates/general.asp?articleid=2211

Page 24 (3/06)
Protective Clothing: Replace the first part of second and third paragraph with "10.99 (*6.40) to 13.99 (*8.59); …"

Page 24 (2/06)
Protective Clothing: Replace 10th paragraph with "Full-bodied or front-engine vehicles, supercharged or turbocharged with alcohol 9.99 and faster: Suit meeting SFI Spec 3.2A/15, gloves and boots meeting SFI Spec 3.3/5 mandatory.

But that's ALL it says. Without the original rule book to compare by, these revisions don't make a lot of sense.

 

[Googs]

Alright, I found those rules in my '06 book (section 1A - Super Pro, Pro, Sportsman) and they originally read as:

Page 24 (3/06)
Protective Clothing: Replace the first part of second and third paragraph with "10.99 (*6.40) to 13.99 (*8.59); …"

par. 2- 10.00 (*6.40) and slower; all E.T. non-OEM supercharged, non-OEM turbocharged, or nitrous-equipped cars with an OEM or .024-inch steel firewall: Jacket meeting SFI Spec 3.2A/1 mandatory.

par. 3- 10.00 (*6.40) and slower; all E.T. supercharged, turbocharged, or nitrous-equipped cars without a full OEM or .024-inch steel firewall: Jacket meeting SFI Spec 3.2A/5 and gloves meeting SFI Spec 3.3/1 mandatory.

Page 24 (2/06)
Protective Clothing: Replace 10th paragraph with "Full-bodied or front-engine vehicles, supercharged or turbocharged with alcohol 9.99 and faster: Suit meeting SFI Spec 3.2A/15, gloves and boots meeting SFI Spec 3.3/5 mandatory.

par. 10- Full-bodied or front-engine vehicles, supercharged or turbocharged with alcohol 9.99 and faster: Suit meeting SFI Spec 3.2A/20, gloves and boots meeting SFI Spec 3.3/15 mandatory.

So we can rule out par. 10 having anything to do with me. The way I read par. 2, is this rule is for N/A cars that have been turbocharged, blown, or had nitrous installed. It doesn't make any referance to upgraded equipment. As far as par. 3, I still have all the OEM firewall intack, including the A/C.

 

[tom h]

It may be possible to intepret par.10 as applying to any turbo regal with anything other than the original garrett turbo.

A track official has the ultimate authority, I suppose, even if he's wrong. It'd be like arguing the fine points of the vehicle code with a policeman-- they're not likely to budge, certainly not under the pressure of the moment.

 

[ijames]

I guess I can see two ways to interpret "non-OEM supercharged, non-OEM turbocharged, or nitrous-equipped cars" in para 2. One way is that it applies to cars that did not come from the factory with super or turbochargers, but the other way is that it applies to cars that do not have the originally equipped super or turbocharger. The "or nitrous-equipped cars" makes the second way make more sense, because that way you would read it as cars with non-oem super or turbochargers, or nitrous, which we fall into with aftermarket turbos. The "with alcohol" makes me think that para 10 does not apply to those of us burning gasoline, but I don't know about alcohol injection.

The old rule was jacket only from 10.0 to 11.99, which I think became 10.0 to 11.49 with the roll bar change, and now for tr's with aftermarket turbos and intact firewalls it is 10.0 to 13.99. I'm all for safety, and all for following the rules at the track, but I think 13.99 is pretty slow to require a fire jacket.

 

[vintageracer]

Just remember, 15-17 second cars catch on fire too!

 

[SilverSleeper]

Just remember, 15-17 second cars catch on fire too!

I'll assume this was directed my way...
This is true. I'll remember to put on my fire suit, helmet, gloves, and nomex underwear when I drive my ticking timebomb to work tomorrow morning..

Lets just eliminate all forms of competitive auto racing. Imagine the injuries and lives that would be saved if all racing was banned. While we are at it, lets build cars that drive themselves, since every single human being is too stupid to know how to drive without wrecking.

 

[Googs]

I'm all for safety, and all for following the rules at the track, but I think 13.99 is pretty slow to require a fire jacket.

I think this is especially true for just an open track night.
What gets me is that my dad's car is capible, in do time, of running my current times, but since he will still have the stock turbo, he will only need a helmet. Heck, what about the Cobras, Lightnings, or even the LS equipped F-bodys? They all can go well into the 12's with bolt on's, but won't need a jacket, and they're at no less risk than me.

 

[vintageracer]

No, "15-17 seconds" was not directed at you. It was directed at EVERYONE who thinks they really do not need safety equipment all the time.

I have raced at Shelby GT 350 and a Datsun 510 in Vintage Road Racing for the last 10 years. Without correct and CURRENT dated safety equipped we do not get on the track for practice or a race. Our practice sessions are 20-30 minutes and races range from 20 minutes to 3 hours. Car preperation and safety equipment are paramount if you expect to last 3 hours at Sebring or Daytona.

In the time that I have been vintage racing there have been 2 individuals killed at races I have attended. Both died during PRACTICE!!!! One gentleman was a famous and experienced multiple 24 hours of Daytona winner and Lemans participant.

The comments that safety epuipment is not needed for slower cars is foolish. A slow car can kill you just as dead as a fast car. Since it was practice when both the individuals mentioned above were killed, do you think the need for safety equipment was any less than during a race? NO!

Good safety equipment is not cheap. Invest wisely and properly in safety equipment.

If the condition most of the cars at the Music City Dragways drag strip that race weekly/monthly is any indication of whats normally presented for competition at most drag strips across the USA, I am glad I am NOT a drag racer. I'd hate to in the lane next to them!

 

[ijames]

I agree that you need to be concerned with safety all the time, whether it is during time trials, a street car night at the track, or during racing. Anyone who know me knows that I have no sympathy for the GN owner who won't put a bar in his car because "it is too nice to cut up" but then whines about not being allowed to run 10's at the track - follow the rules or don't play (and I think somewhere in the 11's is a reasonable place to require a roll bar given the speeds and crash-likelihood and car crashworthiness). However, safety rules should be based on experience and reflect the likelihood of a problem ocurring. I think that it is much more likely for a 7 second car to have a fire than a 17 second car, and therefore it is reasonable to require more fire safety equipment on the 7 second car than on the 17 second car. I have seen 3 fires (or the aftermath) at dragstrips: an 8 second car, a 9 second car, and an 11 second car, and one 10 second car that burned while street racing. I think it is reasonable to require fire suits on 11 second and faster cars, but I think requiring the same fire suit on a 17 second car is unreasonable because the likelihood of it ever providing a benefit is so small compared to the expense and hassle-factor. If you have ever sat in the staging lanes in a fire suit on a 95 degree afternoon you know what hot is, and can appreciate how onerous requiring one in a very slow car would be. Somewhere between 11 and 17 seconds is a reasonable place to draw the line, I just feel that it should be closer to the 11 second end of that range than 13.99. If safety rules are too overbearing compared to the perceived need, then people will either ignore them whenever they can or stop going to the track to race, and either way safety will suffer. I would love to know the statistics of numbers of car fires versus et, but I doubt the NHRA would ever release anything like that. If they do have data to show that firesuits would make a difference in driver safety at the 13.99 level I would love to see it, and I would absolutely go along with their requirement.

 

[Googs]

Well, I found out the reason behind this rule. A good friend of mine knows an NHRA licencend official and the revisions were brought about by an exssesive amount of nitrous fires at the tracks. So I'm assuming that the NHRA paniced and wrote the revisions, and while doing so didn't want to single one "group" out, so they included turbos & blowers. I still think if they're doing this, it needs to be across the board, ie...Everybody running X time & quicker must have a SFI jacket.

 

[turbojimmy]

I just got off the phone with an NHRA tech at 'headquarters' on this. I was sure that my local track was interpreting the rules wrong and that only drivers vehicles that did not have turbos from the factory, but now do, have to have jackets. I was wrong.

Even if your car had a turbo or supercharger from the factory, if you've removed said turbocharger or supercharger and replaced it with a non-OEM unit then you have to have a jacket.

So I'm off to buy a jacket.....

Jim

 

[tom h]

... if you've removed said turbocharger or supercharger and replaced it with a non-OEM unit then you have to have a jacket....

So driving a car with stock OEM turbo does NOT mandate a jacket ?? (per NHRA rulebook).

 

[turbojimmy]

So driving a car with stock OEM turbo does NOT mandate a jacket ?? (per NHRA rulebook).

Correct - not required unless you're quicker than 11.5.

Jim

 

[2QUIK6]

Hi Mr. Tech inspector, mine's the stock turbo its the big turbo option like came standard on the GNX

 

[turbojimmy]

Hi Mr. Tech inspector, mine's the stock turbo its the big turbo option like came standard on the GNX

That will work to an extent, but I just ponied up the $50 for a jacket.

Jim

 

[Louie L.]

My local 8th mile requires a fire jacket and helmet for saturday races no matter what you run. Test N Tune requires a helmet even for cars turning 17s in the 1/4. I took my NA PT there just for the fun of it, and was lucky I could borrow a friends helmet. Im not buying a fire jacket just to run on saturdays. Sounds just like my boss at work...make up the rules as you go along. What next?

Although I understand your frustration, I bet if our local track enacted the same rules it would eliminate at least 100 ricer wannabees clogging up the track.

 

[2QUIK6]

The jacket and making sure you have an extinguisher is an excellent idea anyway at tracks around here..didn't mean to come off differently with my wise crack above. I've seen several cars burn to the ground because there is no track fire crews, only an ambulance..so if the car is on fire, or even worse, the car is on fire with you knocked out in it, the ambulance EMTs can do nothing but watch you burn..course a jacket won't help you much there.
Most of the ignorant techs here don't even check for a drive shaft loop, if they make those ricers get jackets, they loose 75% of their business on street night on a budget that barely keeps them in business anyway even though they carry no insurance....someone slips in the grandstands, they change owners is how it seems to work.