AMS1000 operation for dummies

[Alky V6]

More pics.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Looks good Donnie.
I had read from others about trying to keep the plumbing short as possible but decided I wanted everything together on the inner fender. My line to the top of the gate is about 48" long but boost control is steady.
Another note to others using Tial gates, I could not find any push to connect fittings with the M10 x 1.0 thread Tial uses on their gates. I ended up making a small banjo fitting and tapping it for an 1/8 NPT push to connect fitting (see pic).

 

[charlief1]

You 2 have some nice toys for sure. Thanks for the link on the connectors btw. I may be using them myself if things get better soon.

 

[Nova67ss]

Ok GOOOD discusion/ operation for Dummies.

I needed this info and still have some Q to put on this thread..

Im Swedish so beside the language I have bad telephone times and NOT a track at my town to test on, so this AMS 1000 is a peace of nasa equipment put in the hands of a caveman...

We use the time base mode to control run.
We have the CO2 bottle controlling the VG.


We just diskovered that there is a delay to aply on launch, BEFORE the time activates told U Im a cave man..

I guess that U as me are confused by the guesswork in TARGET PSI vs INTAKE MANIFOLD PSI??

Ex
We try to launch the AWD car we race (1200Hp and 9,0 - 8,8x ET at 159 Mph and a 60´foot at 1,65 :O ) at 7-8 psi and will end up att 30 psi

With a 10 psi spring in the VG its to easy to smoke the tires and we have the TARGET PSI at 37 psi to get almost 30 PSI in intake thats fine

But when going to an easyer spring about 5-6 psi VG and starts are slow/lame and even putting the TARGET PSI to 44 psi (ve tested several times and had to boost up the target psi) only neated a lousy 27 psi in intake.

So for the last run we realy boosted up target PSI to about 53 psi :O and got about 30 psi in intake BUT boost spikes at 40psi on shiftpoints, NOT good.

And we´re still guessing about that damn "TARGET PSI" without that right the ramp and time is useless


SO I figured maybee I could logg the intake presure (via its mapsensor) on AUX channel and still activate the timebase mode on VG ??

We have no way of acauarcy logg on runs to see boost vs AMS 1000 target psi.


Another Q is, HOW much slover would the controll system bee IF we set the Boost sensor to the intake manifold instead of the VG??.

THat would let us realy controll the pressure into the engine and with this even controlling the VG by just set the CO" pressure to say 35 - 40 PSI and let the Solenoides controll the intace PSI wia the "TARGET PSI" IRL..

I mean the AMS does 50 K controls a sec so in my eyes this will controll IRL pressure good too..

How manny controll this unit by intake?? or VG??

please teach me I want to go fast. on a steady base..

regards Anders.

 

[Nova67ss]

About the launch and time mode,
when on relise on transbrake we have had the AMS activatet instantly not even been aware about the chassie windup and delay so the progarm was long gone in stage 3 before the car akually moved and then with stage 3- 4 boost on so tires smoked instantly all time killing 60 foot..

We started to try to make the stage 1 timer longer (about .5 sec) to kompensate for loss of chassie reaction, BUT upon reading the manual again I figured out theres a possibility to delay the activator signal when relise from launch mode to time base mode.. Right??
I also have played with an excel program to make the ram, time and target calculation somehow easyer.. I even added a Intace pressure with a % calc for target psi..

Sending U a pic, hope it make sense because theres a graf to it to that take´s the changes direktly, not perfect but do it for mee.. Nrs on pics are fake

 

[Nova67ss]

Did I accidentaly kill this thread??..

 

[Alky V6]

No you didn't. I think it would be best if you carefully outlined one question at a time. Trying to read your posts is a little difficult. I've read over them 3 times now and I'm a little dizzy. Not to mention, I'm no expert with this unit and it would help if the question is carefully presented. Sorry.

 

[charlief1]

LOL Thanks Donnie. I'm glad it wasn't just me. I wasn't even gonna say anything since I'm new on understanding the equiptment.

 

[Nova67ss]

Ok sorry I´ll try it like this then.. the language difference and the way of building sentence can be a hazzel, didnt mean to confuse U

Ok GOOOD discusion/ operation for Dummies.

I needed this info and still have some Q to put on this thread..
We use the time base mode to control run.
The Boost sensor is on the VG.
We have the CO2 bottle controlling the VG.


I guess that U as me are confused by the guesswork in TARGET PSI vs INTAKE MANIFOLD PSI, And we´re still guessing about that damn "TARGET PSI" without that right the ramp and time is useless

Question #1
Is it posible to logg the intake pressure (via intake mapsensor) on AUX channel and still controll the timebase mode on VG with boost sensor and CO2 ??


Another Q #2
HOW much slover would the controll system bee IF we set the Boost sensor to the intake manifold instead of the VG??.
We would still controll the VG with CO2


Question #3
When in LAUNCH mode, is it possible to delay the activator signal when relising the transbrakebutton so the chassie gets time to reakt BEFORE the timebase mode starts its sequence??


Yet a Question #4
How manny controll this unit by intake?? or VG??


regards Anders.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Ok sorry I´ll try it like this then.. the language difference and the way of building sentence can be a hazzel, didnt mean to confuse U

I log Co2 pressure on the wastegate with my XFI system. This lets me see the MAP reading as well as the Co2 psi.

There is no reason to use the AMS to control intake pressure directly. All it takes is a few passes to get a feel for the amount of Co2 psi needed for the amount of boost you wish to have.

If you have twin turbo's. The target pressure will be very close to your intake pressure. With a single, it's more sensative to back pressure. For example. With a 5# spring in the wastegate. 20psi of Co2 may net 20 psi in the intake. 30psi of Co2 may net 24psi in the intake. It could then take 40psi on the gate to produce 30psi in the intake. Once you get a handle on it, the controller works flawless.

Regarding your launch question.

You can maintain a very low boost for a long time after launch, BUT this depends on your wastegate size. If your wastegate is too small, the turbo will make more boost than you want, even with 0# on the gate.

To test, set your AMS target psi to 0# and the time at 0.00. Make a pass, this will tell you the lowest amount of intake psi you can run. It could be 5# or it could be 17#......it all depends on the proper sized gate for you combo.

I can launch at 10psi with a target psi of 10#. It will hold this boost for then entire run if I want. I have to run 2 50mm gates to achieve this.

 

[Alky V6]

OK. I'm going in!

#1. Yes. The boost channel and the aux channel are completely separate. Treat each channel as a separate controller. The manual explains how you can do just what you're asking.

#2. This, I don't know. Have never tried it.

#3. You should use the first stage for your delay.

#4. W/G here.

 

[Alky V6]

I log Co2 pressure on the wastegate with my XFI system. This lets me see the MAP reading as well as the Co2 psi.

There is no reason to use the AMS to control intake pressure directly. All it takes is a few passes to get a feel for the amount of Co2 psi needed for the amount of boost you wish to have.

If you have twin turbo's. The target pressure will be very close to your intake pressure. With a single, it's more sensative to back pressure. For example. With a 5# spring in the wastegate. 20psi of Co2 may net 20 psi in the intake. 30psi of Co2 may net 24psi in the intake. It could then take 40psi on the gate to produce 30psi in the intake. Once you get a handle on it, the controller works flawless.

Regarding your launch question.

You can maintain a very low boost for a long time after launch, BUT this depends on your wastegate size. If your wastegate is too small, the turbo will make more boost than you want, even with 0# on the gate.

To test, set your AMS target psi to 0# and the time at 0.00. Make a pass, this will tell you the lowest amount of intake psi you can run. It could be 5# or it could be 17#......it all depends on the proper sized gate for you combo.

I can launch at 10psi with a target psi of 10#. It will hold this boost for then entire run if I want. I have to run 2 50mm gates to achieve this.

Dusty. I really don't know a whole bunch about your combo, but is that two 50mm gates controlling two ?mm turbos or a large single?

 

[Nova67ss]

Thanks Don.

Ok so as I suspekted the chanels are divided and work separatly good.

Even so that I can log the CO2 at VG with my XFI will bee even simpler for me (this is where I miss in reading the, in my opinion, to lithle info manuals to the gizmo´s..

Maybee Im to old to understand them too?? 50+

One more Q.

When im puting in time and rate ramp nrs, I kan see that the ramped psi + the previus stage (say stage 1) target psi is higher than the target psi on next stage (stage 2 ) will this high psi pressure bee limited by the stage 2 target psi??


I´ll try to give an example..

Stage 1 is set at target psi 15, the time is set for .5 sec and ramp is 50 psi/sec = 25 psi,
when stage 2 is activated with a target psi 20 im gona reach this target in .1 sec (15 target at stage 1 + 25 psi for .5 sec is 40 psi on .5 sec time) witch is dubble my target psi of 20..

As I read the manual this will be a fast ram to target 20 for .1 sec and then the boost controll will hold the pressure on target 20 psi for the rest of the time .04 sec..
Right or wrong??

This should show as a curve with stepps and not just like a bow curve as in my simple excel program

I hope my sentens and figuring make sens, its hard to ask tecknikal advansed Q in a foreign language..

Regards Anders

 

[Nova67ss]

I refere to this pic.

 

[Alky V6]

OK. I'm getting the impression that you're making this harder than it needs to be. Let's start out from the beginning.

What do you want to accomplish with the intake manifold pressure?

It appears you want to launch on 7 psi MAP and then have it ramp as quickly as possible to 20 psi for the rest of the run? Is this correct?

Never mind the controller for now. Just outline what you want the intake pressure to do.

 

[Nova67ss]

OK. I'm getting the impression that you're making this harder than it needs to be. Let's start out from the beginning.

What do you want to accomplish with the intake manifold pressure?

It appears you want to launch on 7 psi MAP and then have it ramp as quickly as possible to 20 psi for the rest of the run? Is this correct?

Never mind the controller for now. Just outline what you want the intake pressure to do.

I guess you´r right about me doing brainloops in this

The move of target PSI from the VG to the Intake would stop the guesswork on intake pressure, I thought. the target PSI on the AMS is intake pressure with this move.

This is what I came up with so far with the help of this thread AND the manuals

We´ve been trying, I think, with a to soft spring, about 4-6 psi in VG at the start, so we got slow spool and no accuracy psi readings at full boost.

Biggest problem I see right now is the lack of testruns availebly for us here, and due to alot of other small problems we had´nt got time to play with the AMS..
Race/test times, distance and wheather+ other gremlins have just blown the season away for us, maybe 2 possibilitys left for this year´s season

Again thinkin about this gives us the bright idea that wile relising the TB, the car stands still for about almost a second before moving and that puts us in stage 4 with a target to 20 psi and this blows the tires away.


Plan right now is to have a spring with launch PSI at 10 intake map.

Im gona lenght the time on stage 1 to get the timer to work when car REALY MOVES

Figure to use 4 maybe 6 stages to controll the boost about 80 - 120 feet out on track, and this would take some ramp and time tests

Then try to reach max boost at 30-33 psi intake manifold pressure before the 330 mark or sooner

 

[Nova67ss]

Ok, We have found a way to solve the loops..

Thanks for all good info in this thread Don

 

[charlief1]

You need to read some of Donnie's other threads. He posts this way so the rest of us can figure what to do with our cars.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Dusty. I really don't know a whole bunch about your combo, but is that two 50mm gates controlling two ?mm turbos or a large single?

It takes 2 50mm gates to control the single 94mm or the 106mm.

With one gate, minimum boost was 17psi. I needed to hold less than 14psi for 1.5 seconds to get the car to hook. I could go to 0# of Co2 for 2 seconds after launch and it would still hit 17-18psi. It would spin at around 16psi.

With the extra gate. I could now maintain 8psi for the entire run.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Ok, We have found a way to solve the loops..

Thanks for all good info in this thread Don

I'm with Don. Tell us what boost curve you want, and we'll help get you an idea of how the settings should look.

Like we have mentioned. Your minimum boost will only be as low as your wastegates will allow. If your gates are too small, your minimum boost requirements can't be met.