All out top speed in a TR.

[NY Twin Turbo]

So the little 0-60 thread was fun. Lets try it again with this.

What is the top speed a certain TR can achieve? In a strait line, with an infinite length flat road ahead.

The variables are infinite! So much so, that it's almost impossible to calculate. So I think we sub-10 to high-8 second guys should somewhat use our own cars as examples.

Assuming the following................

- That you will go all the way to the point you begin to piss your pants.
- That you make no major hard-part changes from our typical drag race trim. But everything you already have can be adjusted to the max. Shocks, control arm length, sway bar, camber, caster....whatever.
- That you use a stock body with no blocked off grill, huge wing, or body wrapping air dams.
- You can have it slightly lowered an inch or maybe 2 is OK.
- You must have a standard bolt in adjustable factory configured 4 link rear suspension.
- You can use any big tire on the back and a street tire on the front on any rim you want to use.
- TH-400 as the transmission.
- Any re-tune you can program.


Then maybe re-compute MPH for the transmission of your choice............
Then maybe another re-compute for a total road-race modification list for your own car..........

Lets see what you come up with!

 

[Boost231]

I know one of nick micale's customers does the salt flat stuff and nick has been helping him. Maybe he will share some of his info they have collected over the years

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I know one of nick micale's customers does the salt flat stuff and nick has been helping him. Maybe he will share some of his info they have collected over the years

This would be great! I love to here about TRs involved in the other genre of motorsports. But, I'm especially curious on how we would do against some of the super cars if we re-adjusted our set-ups accordingly.

 

[Street Lethal]

In my opinion a stalled GM 8L90 tranny with 2.54/2.73 rear gears would do the trick...

 

[Nick Micale]

In 2012 my friend with a stock T-Type went 136.09 on the salt.

Tires were legal for that speed, and the car had to be stock in appearance and drivetrain.

A few changes are allowed for the next class up which is from 150-200 MPH, and he is getting the car ready for that class.

Running on salt is a lot different than on asphalt or concrete due to less traction and more drag.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

In my opinion a stalled GM 8L90 tranny with 2.54/2.73 rear gears would do the trick...

But first, what about the example I listed above? Before you put that tranny in, and then again after?

 

[Nick Micale]

I do not understand changing the trans even if it has a couple overdrive gears?

First, it is not allowed in that class, and second for a 1 mile course and the little V-6 is maxed out at the end!

Locally we have a 1/2 mile top end course and this Buick was within a couple MPH on the fastest cars there!

He ran with a modified 2013 Shelby and some other exotic ride, so he was the most impressive car among the $100K+field there!

 

[Street Lethal]

I do not understand changing the trans even if it has a couple overdrive gears?

By swapping to the 8-speed automatic, this will allow you to run a larger (lower numerically) gear out back bringing your final gear ratio where it needs to be to achieve the top speed you want without sacrificing turbo spool, because first gear in the 8L90 is 4.56 compared to the 2.48 first gear in the Turbo 400, not to mention the 0.65 final gear in the 8L90 compared to the 1.00 final gear found in the Turbo 400, so you can run a 2.54/2.73 rear gear with a built stage two engine with no lag down low, but way more MPH up top.

 

[No disintegrations]

When the Dodge viper came out it had a six speed trans that was the new thing. Top speed was achieved in 3 rd or 4th gear due to air resistance and the engines powerband.

 

[GNBRETT]

do it with the 2004r. only a small fraction of TR owners run a TH400. imo without OD that trans is NOT a street car transmission.

sure it can run in a street car but is it really a street car if u can't go over 60 mph down the hi way without RPM's thru the roof? imo NO! a 400 is for racing or those that want to cruise down the interstate at 60 mph which is really BORING.

 

[Nick Micale]

You guys have fun with this thread as my info is from a couple sources who run specific events with various classes.

Running on salt is way different as low gears will kill traction and low gears in the trans will not work there?

My expertise is on a drag strip, not land/speed racing!

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

You guys have fun with this thread as my info is from a couple sources who run specific events with various classes.

Running on salt is way different as low gears will kill traction and low gears in the trans will not work there?

My expertise is on a drag strip, not land/speed racing!

Aw, come on Nick. Come play with us for a while. Your expertise (or lack off) on any subject is always appreciated.

 

[Nick Micale]

Aw, come on Nick. Come play with us for a while. Your expertise (or lack off) on any subject is always appreciated.

Thanks for your nice comment! I just do not know a lot about high speed events so maybe I should get Spoolfool here as Mike has been there and knows a lot about this stuff!

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

do it with the 2004r. only a small fraction of TR owners run a TH400. imo without OD that trans is NOT a street car transmission.

sure it can run in a street car but is it really a street car if u can't go over 60 mph down the hi way without RPM's thru the roof? imo NO! a 400 is for racing or those that want to cruise down the interstate at 60 mph which is really BORING.

Yes Bret. But I asked that we use our 10 sec/ high 8 sec members to calculate their performance in a all out top speed scenario. Most of us in this performance bracket will have TH-400s. But I would gladly accept any guess at this point. Whether we have 200s or 400s doesn't seem to matter. Seems as if I stumped the masses on this one.

If I had to guess, and I have no math to prove it, I would say 180ish for a 400 car and 200ish for a 200 car. But I may be way off!

 

[SpeedRacerX]

This is almost like the 0-60 question again. Most of you 8<10 second guys have cars, dare I say, purpose-built for the 1/4. Top speed is a totally different animal. Horsepower becomes more important than torque, gearing is crucial, drag and frontal area is crucial, weight matters less, etc.
Now, Joey, your car is an exception because of the power that twin turbo is probably producing but you could be transmission, gearing and drag limited. When you cross the lights at 145 in 4th, how much of the RPMs are left? I assume you cross in 4th?

My other car, the '09 Pontiac G8 GT, has basic bolt-ons. Made only 370hp/tq at the wheels, estimated 436 at the crank, 6-speed Auto, runs 12.7x on street tires at 110mph at the top of 3rd. Yes, it's slow. But it's been 155mph a couple times and still pulling like a mother. 2.92 gears. I'm told she'll go 170-180mph. There are several proven blower and turbo kits for the G8. These heavy-ass cars (4,000# give or take) have been into the 9's but more often 10's and low 11's with FI and proper traction are most common. Even with FI, there is NO WAY, the G8 would take your GN in the 1/4 BUT I would bet it would be an entirely different story at the top end due to gearing, trans, drag, etc.

There are some calculators out there for this. What RPM are you at and what gear when you cross the 1/4?

 

[SpeedRacerX]

Mess around with some of these...

http://warped.org/vw/calc.html
http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/tyres.html

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

This is almost like the 0-60 question again. Most of you 8<10 second guys have cars, dare I say, purpose-built for the 1/4. Top speed is a totally different animal. Horsepower becomes more important than torque, gearing is crucial, drag and frontal area is crucial, weight matters less, etc.
Now, Joey, your car is an exception because of the power that twin turbo is probably producing but you could be transmission, gearing and drag limited. When you cross the lights at 145 in 4th, how much of the RPMs are left? I assume you cross in 4th?

My other car, the '09 Pontiac G8 GT, has basic bolt-ons. Made only 370hp/tq at the wheels, estimated 436 at the crank, 6-speed Auto, runs 12.7x on street tires at 110mph at the top of 3rd. Yes, it's slow. But it's been 155mph a couple times and still pulling like a mother. 2.92 gears. I'm told she'll go 170-180mph. There are several proven blower and turbo kits for the G8. These heavy-ass cars (4,000# give or take) have been into the 9's but more often 10's and low 11's with FI and proper traction are most common. Even with FI, there is NO WAY, the G8 would take your GN in the 1/4 BUT I would bet it would be an entirely different story at the top end due to gearing, trans, drag, etc.

There are some calculators out there for this. What RPM are you at and what gear when you cross the 1/4?

I'm not in 4th because I no longer have it. I have a 400 now. And I know this hurts the MPH number. So it crosses the line I think about 6800. I have to check a log, I don't remember. But, I wonder if easing up to the MPH over a greater distance makes a difference? I would like to factor in all the limiting issues. Drag, gearing, etc........

I understand we generally have our cars set-up for 1/4 mile performance. This is why I asked about our combinations usefulness as they stand. Because given adjustments to our equipment as they are, and a limitless straightaway, could a big world class top MPH be achieved? I wouldn't even be disappointed if someone said "no way." Because this is what I expect. But a general range just seems to spark my curiosity. Not just for my car, but for my peers as well.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Mess around with some of these...

http://warped.org/vw/calc.html
http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/tyres.html

These are great links! I'll take a closer look at these tonight. Any body else want to punch in some numbers and share what they have found?

 

[GNBRETT]

tru, at that power level most use a 400

Yes Bret. But I asked that we use our 10 sec/ high 8 sec members to calculate their performance in a all out top speed scenario. Most of us in this performance bracket will have TH-400s. But I would gladly accept any guess at this point. Whether we have 200s or 400s doesn't seem to matter. Seems as if I stumped the masses on this one.

If I had to guess, and I have no math to prove it, I would say 180ish for a 400 car and 200ish for a 200 car. But I may be way off!

 

[captrob]

I used this calc : http://www.andysautosport.com/learning_center/calculators/
It's all down to gears, tire size, and power to hit a MPH in a limited or unlimited distance...of course you have to have the horsepower to overcome drag(tire friction, air resistance,cd, air density, etc). It's not linear...double the velocity = 4 times the drag.

I did 162 mph in the standing mile a few years ago. It wasn't a heavy Regal, but TR drivetrain and a fairly un-aerodynamic open top Cobra replica. 3.43 rear gears, 200-4R, 10" converter(locked in 4th). Went across the line at 5100-5200 rpm, so I had a little bit left maybe. Taller tires would have helped. I guessed with 3.73 rear gears that I might be revving too high before the traps. The calculators have it about 7-8 mph higher at that rpm, so it's probably driveline friction loss or slipping the converter.

I only gained 20ish mph in the last 1/2 mile…I had a lexan windshield blow out at 140mph…put on the shorty windshield and gained 10 mph the next run…drag is an awesome force to overcome.

That motor dyno’d 530hp at the wheels, 2200 lb car, high surface friction, frontal area, huge snout scoop in the front and open top.

I’m prepping to go back with a stage motor, twin turbo, 2400 lb car with a lot less drag(think 1980’s wedge shape…very low cd), and 6 speed transaxle. I estimate 750 to 800hp is needed to get through the 200mph wall.

Rob