A question for all the Law Enforcement members

[blackbird]

You are within your rights to ask to see the radar unit and its within the cops rights not to show it to you. Refusing to consent to a search is not probable cause but the cop can request a warrant if he is really suspicious that youre doing something illegal and then youll get searched anyway. I always make them do the paperwork even when im not hiding anything. Almost all cop cars have video in them, so when you get pulled over and question their methods, they have it on cam. By the time you get pulled over, most cops have dealt with a bunch of aholes that question their authority, so when you ask for the radar numbers or question why they are searching your vehicle ( a cop can search any part of the vehicle they can see without opening anything ) anywho, when you do that to them they get really pissed!! Just some advice: like a lot of people said, RESPECT will go a long way, even if the cop is an ahole. If they perform an illegal search, let them, itll show in court and whatever they find is inadmissable. Stop screwin around, most people dont get pulled over for nothing.

 

[turbofish38]

Here is my .02. If you feel the cop was wrong hire a lawyer and contest it in court. I have spent a few hours in traffic and civil court and here are my observations.One of two things always happens. Your lawyer can always plead the case down to a lesser offense or the prosecutions case falls apart because the cop didn't turn on his video or he got caught in a lie. I saw one case where a rice boy got caught "drag" racing and his reckless driving citation was dismissed because they caught the cop in a lie. The dumba$$ kid was guilty as heck and they were able to prove there was no probable cause from the video tape.

On the subject of PC and respect: Why should I show respect when I get pulled over for some lame excuse for PC? I have been pulled over for some of the stupidest reasons. A license plate lamp is burned out, the car is equipped with 2 of them,show where on the MV laws that both of them need to function. I didn't keep my turn indicator on long enough on a lane change, should I be like an old fart a leave it on for the next two miles? There is to much dirt covering up the expiration tag on your license plate, geez I guess it should be a law if you live on a dirt road you need to wash you car everyday.

The problem is, if your a cop you cant sit around all day long doing nothing, a ticket in your log book shows the cheif you are out there keeping up the status qou. There are a lot of cops IMO that are dumb,greedy MoFo's that would write a ticket to their mother just to get that next promotion whether it would be to a better shift or a step up in the pay scale.

BTW, I fight every ticket I get now because I've seen how the system works down here. It may cost me a little more money but at least I have a clean paper trail. Two quotes that stick out in my mind came from my lawyer. 1-There is no such thing as PC, a cop will and can do anything he wants. 2-Cops are trained to be professional liars.

 

[badboy86gn2]

Who knows why certain law inforcement officers do what they do But.....

perhaps if we walk the walk we could talk the talk

Johnny

I hope you find an answer that your contempt with

 

[rev. 3:11]

It's really about attitude. I hate working traffic because you never know what you're going to end up with on a stop. gnxtc2 is dead on, we deal with a**holes several times a shift, so it gets old real quick. I drive fast but safe, my big pet peeve is people not using turn-signals, driving too slow (impeding traffic) & speeding in school zones (along w/ rice burners on a public roadway). It really is about attitude, the best thing to do is not do anything when stopped, wait for the officer to instruct you, especially at night! Turn on your dome light & put your hands on the steering wheel, don't try to retrieve anything from the glove box or under the seat etc. Regarding traffic laws, there should be statutes available online, at the library, or at the county law library. There are some real a**hole cops who bring us all down.

As far as getting pulled over for burned out lights, etc., driving is a priveledge licensed by the state and as such there exists no "right " to drive. When you get your DL you agree to follow all the rules of the road, including vehicle maintenance. Does a burnt out light give PC to toss a car? Of course not!

To all of you who have nasty things to say about cops, check with your local agency about a ride-along program; you get to spend a shift with us and see it from our side. Turbofish38, remember- 99% of lawyers give the rest of them a bad name!

 

[turbofish38]

Thats what I get when I'm on my soapbox on my lunch hour. I dont post everything I mean to say. Rev, you are right, the point I was trying to make is if an infraction of the law doesn't keep the vehicle or the operator from driving in a safe manner than what right does a law enforcement officer have in pulling you over? I know 99% of the time they are fishing for something,usually to see if you are DUI, but if you are out obeying the laws of the road than by pulling someone over on a stupid excuse of a PC,than to me that is showing more contempt to the public that they are supposed to be protecting. Any idiot can see what you are up to, just dont insult my intelligence by pulling this chit on me.It shouldn't make a difference if you the cop, is having a bad day or had to give some scum of the earth a piece of your mind. When a cop says if anyone questions his authority than they are going to get a ticket, who is showing more contempt for the law? The cop or the perp? I'm in the service industry and if I give any crap or show an attitude with any of my customers I know they are going to go right over my head and to the top and b!tch to my boss and I'll possibly lose my job. The problem with a lot of cops is they know their superiors are going to back them up because they aren't any better when a complaint comes across their desks. It's a good ol boy system out there. The only checks and balances is the courts and the crooked lawyers. Like I've said I know how the system works.
Homeskillet, I know how you feel. When I was a teenager there were a couple of cops in the small town I grew up in that were always hassling me and my freinds. I'm surprised I never got my license suspended. Well not only were they hassling me, but they were doing the same to the Mayors kids, the city councilmens kids,anybody who didn't live in town,etc. Pretty soon it caught up to them and guess what? Yep they were unemployed.
You gotta fight for whats right. Bite back, it is consitutional right.

 

[TurboJunky]

Keep in mind laws, rules and regulations vary from state to state.

In Michigan an offender has no right to see a "locked" radar speed reading. The speed need not be locked anyway. At court, the defendant may request to see the radar unit's calibration / repair history. This isn't a problem as the unit wouldn't be in service unless it passed minimums anyway.

We must be able to demonstrate a unit test at the start of the shift and one at the end of the shift. This test consists of an internal self test that checks circuits, faults and LED's. Speed accuracy is tested against the car's speedometer and as long as they match, the unit is considered to be in perfect working order.

Searches of your car can be conducted:
- incident to arrest
- incident to impound if the PD has an impound policy
- consent
- with a warrant
- upon probable cause a crime is being committed

 

[Silver 6]

First thing is, you don't get a ticket because a radar or Lidar says you were speeding, you get a ticket because the officer says you were speeding. In some courts his word is "all" that is required.

Radar and Lidar are not intended for scanning traffic for speed violators. The officer is trained to observe traffic and use the equipment to verify speed violators. Part of the training program requires officers to estimate speeds of vehicles and then confirm their estimates under the observation of the instructor.

Part of the officer's court testimony should be, "I observed the vehicle traveling" and then go on to say something about where, and prevailing traffic and how it appeared to going a certain speed which he confirmed with the radar or Lidar. There needs to be a reason your speed was recorded.

Locking in a speed on a radar is an optional feature. Some states require the locking feature be factory set to "off" to prevent the officer from locking in any speed. In others it is required to automatically blank the reading after a short period. Asking to see it does little good but get you started on the wrong foot with the guy with the pen.

Radar and Lidar are actually pieces of radio equipment and the change in frequency of the reflected signal off your car tells the unit how fast you were going in relation to the officer's vehicle. The radar or Lidar unit can only be tested to spec by a trained technician. It varies from state to state how often this must be done, some states each six months, some each year, and some there is no statute requirement and departments set it on their own.

The requirement for the officer to verify the accuracy of the readout also varies by state. It is generally taught by instructors to verify the unit each time the unit is put into operation, the start of the shift, and at the end. And we teach them to keep a record of the checks. But some states do not require the checks at all. All modern radar units continually self check themselves over and over while they are turned on and will not operate if an error is found. So again, asking to see his log of radar checks may only get you started off bad with the guy with the pen.

Many departments have the readout from the radar or Lidar directly linked to their video equipment and the reading becomes a part of the video. And many have the video running from the start of the shift to the end. And again, asking to see it out on the road will only get you started off bad with the guy with the pen. Stopping the video would mean he would not be able to record what happened during that time. It puts him at risk for you being able to say something was said or done to you during the time the video was not recording.

While you are stopped, your status is different from state to state. In some states you are considered under arrest until the officer releases you to go. In some other states you may be only considered to be under apprehension, or the physical control of the officer during that time. In both cases the officer's safety overrules many search rights issues. If the officer feels his safety is at risk, he can search anything under your control at that time. Inside your car, that can mean anything you could reach. Think about how you sit in the seat and how much you can reach. Its a lot.

I suggest you listen to Springsteen's "41 Shots" and follow the advice of the Mother in his song. She says "always be polite, and keep your hands in sight."

And the advice just given to talk with a lawyer, is excellent.

I am certified to teach both the operator and instructor level courses for both radar and Lidar.

 

[Homeskillet5]

well all i know is...well at 19 years old and in college, i can't really afford a lawyer. and asking my parents to bail me out is not something i want to do.

but like other said about being nice ad friendly. when i get pulled over i shut my truck off, place the keys on the dash and put both hands o thw wheel. then i only do what the officer asks me to do.
and well it nevers seems to help much.

and i've also noticed..the more you coperate..the easier it makes their job of proving your wrong.

but hey, who cares in this world...i'm just another stupid teenager, right?

 

[TurboJunky]

One thing that comes with maturing into an adult is admitting when one's wrong. It took me a while to learn this and sometimes the hard way.

You gotta ask yourself, "did I do something illegal that got me pulled over in the 1st place?". "Am I the source or cause of my problems?".

I think you know what I'm getting at here.....

 

[Silver 6]

Well, Homeskillit 5............The only one who said you were acting like a dumb teenager was,,,,,,,,you.

I just provided information on the correct procedures used by the officer in speed enforcement.

If you haven't spoken to legal representation its because you haven't made the effort. In pretty much every area there is legal advice to be had at little or no cost. It is your responsibility to find it.

And who cares? It looks to me like a few members here took the time to write and several to give information directly related to the issue raised.

If your attitude with the officer is like that in your last post,,,,,,,well I have no problem understanding your problem with police officers.

 

[GNregistry]

Young Driver in Grand National

YES that was me back when I bought my GN new. It always draws attention. Mostly it is the age.

I was pulled over/caught the police attention -- 6 times the FIRST year I owned my 87 Buick Grand National. and I was 22 years old!

No speeding tickets though in 17 years in the GN. I have been pulled over for speeding in other people vehicles. And those people had a history with the police, so it only make sense.

I was in a 2000 Black 120 inch lincoln towncar limousine several years back (4 hours into the cruise from madison, WI to Minneapolis, MN) and just cruising with the traffic -- felt like I was being followed, so I slowed down a little. Guess what, pulled over by State police 82 mph in 65 mph, last time ticketed for speeding. He stated that if a deer ran out into the highway, and the vehicle ahead of me stopped. I would have crashed into the back of vehicle. My thought was who made him GOD to predict the future.

He was questioning my 2 way radio, if it was legal and if I had a license for it. Then he decided what the hell, back to ticket. Luckily my customers were willing to fork over cash to pay for it. We traveled from Green Bay to Madison (Wisconsin Badger game) to Minneapolis (NBA Game) and back to Green Bay in 24 hours. for a Monday night football game between Viking and Packers.

The worst part is that each time I travel to eastern part of Wisconsin, I usually get pulled over or ticketed. So I am very cautious to abide by the law in that area!!!


Accelerating too quickly, but not speeding.
Smoking the tires
Window Tint on GN

I was even followed by State Trooper when I test drove my Grand National in 1988, before making down payment to purchase. We went back to dealership sat for a while and went back out for a REAL GN test!!

It is the car and your age, especially if your name is on the title and then it is your history....

Later
Brett

 

[ledzeppac]

I got a ticket for red light in august- I was 2 car lengths from intercection when it turned yellow. Proceeded through got pulled over.

My court date was last week to fight it.

Cop never showed.

It wiped off my record and 400 bucks back to me!!!

 

[Homeskillet5]

in my last post i said the world views me as another dumb teen.

and i also told you exactly everything i do when i get pulled over...

when i get pulled over i shut my truck off, place the keys on the dash and put both hands on the wheel. then i only do what the officer asks me to do.

i don't give the officers any attitude or anything its all yes sir and no sir.

i just feel violated wehn u get pulled over for not stopping at a stop sign when you clear as day did.

 

[Homeskillet5]

oh and the truck that i have is a bone stock 2001 fod ranger nothing fast of flashy or anything like that.

 

[BandAid]

The cop got out of his car and the kid, that was stopped for speeding, rolled down his window.

"I've been waiting for you all day," the cop said.

The guy replied, "Yeah, well I got here as fast as I could." When the cop finally stopped laughing, he sent the kid on his way without a ticket.

 

[Rickracer]

Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw

One time, a couple of friends and I were on our way back from the dragstrip. We had taken my '70 Cutlass to the track, but stopped on the way back and changed cars to my '73 V-8 Vega to hit the local hotrod hangout. On the way from my house to the hangout, we stopped at a 7-11, and when I pulled out of there, I turned it loose for two gears. I probably hit 60 or 70 for a moment, (8K rpm small block,4:88 gears) then hit third and let it coast back down to the speed limit of 55. About 3 miles down the road, I saw the blues coming up behind me pretty fast. "OH SH*T". It was a Trooper, and here in Fl. Troopers "never" cut anyone any slack. I got out of the car as instructed, presented my license, registration and proof of insurance, then the Trooper asked if I knew why I was being stopped. I was truthful, I told him I had turned it loose leaving 7-11, and probably deserved a ticket. After a 5 minute lecture, he let me go with only the verbal warning. He could have written me for Careless, Speeding, and probably at least a half dozen other infractions (loud exhaust, Blue Dots, etc). A few years later I get pulled by KPD, again leaving a 7-11, this time for racing on the highway. The officer saw smoke coming from the left side of my V-8 S/10 pickup. I tried to explain to him that I had one cylinder with a broken ring or something causing the smoke, and that if it was a tire smoking it would be both (tight posi, P295/50s). I was accelerating quickly, but only about 1/4 throttle. Had to take that one to court, and still lost. Long story short, be personable, be respectful, be truthful, it will get you farther than you might think, at least some of the time. If you were in the wrong, pay the ticket and chalk it up to experience, if you were not wrong, take it to court, and do your homework before getting there. If the cop was overzealous or just plain wrong, he probably won't even show up. Also, they might have obligations that prevent them from showing up, in which case, "most" of the time, your case will be dismissed. Good luck.

 

[insane6]

I've been using this system for decades and it works for me
I never asks any questions
Don't speak until spoken too, and don't frown or act mad SMILE ! like your having fun.( not in a smart_ss way either)
Always reply ,yes sir and no sir
Dont' lie, small lies will not hurt you ,but be as truthful as possible
No offensive to the officers on this board because there are some good ones too but, treat them like there God, alot have the John Wayne syndrom and give it too them

Bottom line I have got out of more tickets this way than ever arguing with them, matter of fact I can't ever recall arguing with them and they let me go LOL

Even if you do all this and still get the ticket I always tell them thankyou , both of you are on your way under 10 mins and not waiting for half a hour arguing on looking at their radar gun.

And Billy T. since you don't have me pulled over LOL What are your thoughts on people in the fast lane that are driving slow and talking on a cell phone, holding up traffic , let that be your pet peave. instead of the blinkers

 

[Razor]

My Dad once told me, "There are three entities you will never win an argueement with, Women, Priests, and Police."

I wont argue with any of the above

Its a losing battle.