Sounds like a plan. I'll keep you informed if I can escape from work.:smile:
A New Drag Anti Lag System
- Thread starter Alky V6
- Start date
Sounds like a plan. I'll keep you informed if I can escape from work.:smile:
You may have ???
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I do agree, the heads are your limiter.
The large turbo and methanol allow you to see backpressure #'s that aren't possible with a conventional combo. This alone greatly increases the output of the engine as seen by your mph #'s. Those #'s would never be achieved by using the more traveled path of more boost. By comparison, your head is about equal to a ported iron head from Champion going by your intake flow #'s. This shows just how much benefit there is to getting the BP lower than the intake and is a major reason you see alot of the V8 cars running Methanol. Now I can see where you were coming from when picking your parts. You need to maximize efficiency to make 8 second power with those heads.
But I fail to see anything brilliant about beating a 7 second car when you handicap the start............it's no longer a 7 second car........it's only capable of 7's when used in it's intended area. Sort of like asking a V8 car to pull off 2 plug wires so you can see how it runs on 6 cylinders. Handicapping the other racer is creating a bracket race type scenario.
Dusty, are you suggesting there's less exhaust volume when using methanol?? If so, can you explain why? My understanding is that it was just the opposite.
+1
I always understood that the products of combustion is greater with methanol than with gasoline.
I agree with you, Dusty. I never did like the original Pinks. I thought arguing about how many car lengths one fella would get over the other was plain silly. Why not just have them each pick a dial in and see who holds to it.
It just seemed to me that some out there were anxious to beat up on a small V6 and I was just trying to make it interesting. I now see that most are more comfortable beating up on a small V6 behind the keyboard. That's fine. A pro light start from 2800 rpm is not the best way to launch my car either.
With consumption being almost twice the amount with meth vs gas one would assume the volume of spent gases would also be somewhere in that range as well...
BTW Don, is your little challenge limited to V6's? :tongue:
LOL! So you want to beat up on my little V6 too!?With consumption being almost twice the amount with meth vs gas one would assume the volume of spent gases would also be somewhere in that range as well...
BTW Don, is your little challenge limited to V6's? :tongue:
You're way too generous. :tongue:Alright alright, I won't use the nitrous
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I wish I knew the scientific reason for this but I don't. All I can tell you is there is less exhaust volume and it greatly helps in lowering the back pressure. I have seen 2 different cars swap from gas to alky and backpressure dropped significantly. One racer was about to swap to twins rather than the single which was seeing a lot of BP on a big block. After swapping to alky he decided to keep the single since it picked up a lot of power just by dropping the BP with the alky.
If you actually saw an increase in BP with alky it would offset the advantage of running it.
You might be seeing the affect of a lower egt that you get with alcohol. That doesn't necessarily mean there is less product of combustion.
Whatever it is reducing backpressure between the turbo and engine in a turbocharged engine will increase the output substantially regardless of where the compressor may be as far as efficiency. You can have a higher mass flow and lower pressure if the combustion temps are lower. BSFC may suck but the meth is pulling a lot of heat out of the combustion chamber as it boils. Im sure cam timing can be adjusted for significant gains when using methanol too.
All very good points, bison. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there's some real interest in burning pure methanol starting to grow here.
From the Innovate Motorsports website -
"When tuning a methanol engine, make sure the engine is warmed up before you switch on the wideband system. (The short operation without heater power will not damage the sensor.) Here's the reason:
Many methanol engines run very rich, not only because of the low stoich AFR of methanol (6.4), but also because methanol has a very high latent heat value compared to gasoline. On a cold engine only part of the inducted or injected methanol even vaporizes and takes part in the combustion. The rest runs out of the exh. ports still in liquid droplet form. This can be seen on the exhaust ports that show traces of liquid methanol running out. This liquid methanol can kill the sensor by heat shock (high latent heat, as said), just as water can.
In addition the EGTs of methanol are typically much lower than on a gasoline engine, while the exhaust gas volume is higher. This causes the sensor heater to not be able to keep the sensor at operating temperature and it will error out. Even higher supply voltage will not help because the sensor heater has a limit to how much wattage can be supplied to it. After all, these sensors are designed for production cars with much lower power than a methanol fueled dragster. Using a double height bung so the sensor is out of the direct exhaust stream will help the sensor heater to keep the sensor in its operating temperature range.
Until next time... Keep On Tuning!
-Innovate Motorsports
"When tuning a methanol engine, make sure the engine is warmed up before you switch on the wideband system. (The short operation without heater power will not damage the sensor.) Here's the reason:
Many methanol engines run very rich, not only because of the low stoich AFR of methanol (6.4), but also because methanol has a very high latent heat value compared to gasoline. On a cold engine only part of the inducted or injected methanol even vaporizes and takes part in the combustion. The rest runs out of the exh. ports still in liquid droplet form. This can be seen on the exhaust ports that show traces of liquid methanol running out. This liquid methanol can kill the sensor by heat shock (high latent heat, as said), just as water can.
In addition the EGTs of methanol are typically much lower than on a gasoline engine, while the exhaust gas volume is higher. This causes the sensor heater to not be able to keep the sensor at operating temperature and it will error out. Even higher supply voltage will not help because the sensor heater has a limit to how much wattage can be supplied to it. After all, these sensors are designed for production cars with much lower power than a methanol fueled dragster. Using a double height bung so the sensor is out of the direct exhaust stream will help the sensor heater to keep the sensor in its operating temperature range.
Until next time... Keep On Tuning!
-Innovate Motorsports
The advice on the O2 sensor would depend on the placement of the O2 sensor(s). If the sensor is past a turbo with long primaries, you can treat the O2 sensor like you would with a gasoline engine. I'm on the same wideband sensor that I started out with years ago.
Much of the droplets you see coming out of the exhaust of a methanol burning engine is water, just like you'd see coming out of the exhaust of a gasoline engine with a cold exhaust system. It's just that with methanol, there's a lot more water content in the exhaust.
H2O is 50% of the product of combustion from burning methanol.
I figured so, but I had to add to the opinion on the wideband sensors. Sorry.
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Like I said..........I'm no scientist
It could be less dense, takes up less space or whatever. Swap from gas to alky and backpressure is lower, it's been proven numerous times.Im no scientist either, but could this be because the spent exhaust is cooler, therefore its more dense which occupies less space and that denser air may tend to spin the wheel on the turbo faster because its denser?? Anyway basically your moving the same amount of air through the motor with more fuel, so if the exhaust is cooler (so it expands less and takes up less space therefore causing less backpressure?? Heck I dont know!! Thats why Im a blower guy!! Doesnt hurt your head as much!! Mike
