87 Grand National breaking up under boost...Research Phase

[20psiofevil]

Have a friend who is experiencing this problem. Mods are cam, injector, converter, chip and te44 turbo. An old friend reached out to me on facebook messenger the other day and I was suppose to ride over today and help with the car or atleast help diagnose the issue. Due to some wind damage here on the east coast I was indisposed this weekend so made plans to ride over next weekend.

Here is the kicker, he doesn't know a whole lot about the car or the mods on it. He had a local racer install the cam and converter. He hasn't messed with the car in a few years due to a nasty divorce issue. He thinks there is an issue with the turbo but will hit 30psi (I know that is not the issue but this shows me his skill level with turbo v6).

My initial goals are to determine exactly what mods are currently on the car. I want to make sure there is a hot wire on the car and has adequate fuel supply, Change fuel filter, and possibly install a modern pump. Take a look at what valve springs are on the car and verify timing. I want to drain the old gas and put new fuel back in it. I want to verify fuel pressure and make sure 1:1 rise. Set boost to the appropriate available octane. For 93oct pump gas only where should that be?

He does have a scan master so that will help a little. I want to be able to hook the scan master up to my laptop, can anyone point me in the direction to the software I'll need for windows 10? Whats the best way to log fuel pressure on these dinosaurs? What will I need to log on the scan master? What are blm's? Any advice would be appreciated. If fixing this car is beyond my skill set where would be a good place to take the car here on the east coast? Southwest Virginia.

 

[~JM~]

30 PSI?

On 93 octane?

Better keep it below 15# until everything has been verified, fresh fuel, plugs, wires, etc.

Start searching this site, along with: http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/index.html

 

[buddy]

30 psi??????
Hope he has alky!!!

 

[20psiofevil]

He said the turbo made 30psi at one point. Not saying that is where it's set currently. Don't get hung up on that statement. I don't know how much boost it's making currently. I'll know more when I look at it next weekend. I was going to shoot for 16psi if the car doesn't have alky.

 

[dynoman]

Southwest Virginia.

Have him take it to Steve V , he's in SE Virginia
www.facebook.com/pg/stevevturbobuicks

 

[Pronto]

93=15psi. Keep it there until you solve the issue. With all those mods he needs either alky, E85 or 100 oct to get anything out of that combo.
Bad gas, strong possibliity
Bad wires, bad coil, bad sparkplugs or gapped too wide, bad grounds, dirty injectors, wrong chip, wrong injectors for chip, broken valve springs, bad ecm, and the list goes on. Until you get to look at it, just about anything can be the issue.
Search how to check timing, you don't just put a timing light on and look.
Put a fuel pressure testing gauge on and tape it to the windshield to watch while driving to confirm the pressure rises 1:1. If it had a Powerlogger on it you could hook a fuel transducer on it and log it.
The scanmaster doesn't hook up to a laptop. The powerlogger does.
If this guy is not too mechanical it may be better for him to take it to an expert.

 

[20psiofevil]

Have him take it to Steve V , he's in SE Virginia
www.facebook.com/pg/stevevturbobuicks

I don't know who's closer, Steve or RC garage. We are in Radford VA.

 

[dynoman]

Steve goes to RC's to do machine work and is about 2.5 hrs away from RC's I believe .

 

[dynoman]

Your about 4.5 hrs from Steve's and 2.5hrs more to RC's

 

[earlbrown]

You can't hook a Scanmaster to a laptop.


Try not to take this personal, but if you don't know what a BLM is, odds are that car is over your head. Anytime you try and sort out a car that someone else worked on, you have to really know these cars to reconize strange stuff that isn't right. Anytime you try and sort out a car that's been sitting, same thing.

In this instance, you've got other peoples work, mods, and time working against you.



Not to mention a 30psi boost spike that's done who-knows-what to the head gaskets and rod bearings.


That actually might be the 'breaking up' the owner is trying to sort out. 30PSI on pump gas will defiantly cause a break up. ..and some severe backfires.



I would tell the owner to run a brand new 1/4" hose from the turbo directly to the wastegate. Then see where the boost level lands and if the breaking up stops.

 

[20psiofevil]

Shoot, I don't take it personal. I'm just not familiar with the same terminology you'll use. I'm not sure what the purpose of a scan master is if it can't log the sensors. Is scan master used in conjunction with power logger? Like I said I'll run through the basics on the car like air, fuel, and fire and go from there. Determine what chip, injectors, fuel pump, fuel, and miss in general are on the car and go from there.

 

[earlbrown]

A scanmaster is a display that shows what the ECM sees and only logs minimum NB O2 and the corresponding MPH along with maximum knock retard with it's MPH. It updates once every 1.4 seconds.


A scanmaster hooked to a powermaster will update 18 times per second and display everything and a few things extra. The powermaster hooked to a laptop will log everything the ECM sees and a few addons, like a wideband, if they are installed.

 

[Pronto]

Here's what the scanmaster does http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Scantool_Readings.htm when you go wot you can recall the narrow band O2 and knock. You can monitor those in real time as well.

 

[ATL_87GN]

Shoot, I don't take it personal. I'm just not familiar with the same terminology you'll use. I'm not sure what the purpose of a scan master is if it can't log the sensors. Is scan master used in conjunction with power logger? Like I said I'll run through the basics on the car like air, fuel, and fire and go from there. Determine what chip, injectors, fuel pump, fuel, and miss in general are on the car and go from there.

You’ll have to buy a powerlogger if you want to view a logged run on a laptop. The scan master just gives you an idea of the current values while running. I think it will save the highest knock if you playback through the buttons. You can buy a transducer to log fuel pressure through the powerlogger. It’s probably easier to just log max boost while it’s turned down and just look at a mechanical fuel pressure gauge taped to the window. If a flat tappet cam was installed and wasn’t broken in properly, it may also have a wiped lobe.

 

[20psiofevil]

Just went today to look the car over today and did not bring my tools. The car had bad gas so it took a while to start. The mods are an aftermarket turbo (supposedly a te44), comp cam specs unknown, hooker cat back exhaust, 36lb injectors with 93 oct chip, 3000rpm converter brand unknown, stock fuel pump wiring, unknown fuel pump, adjustable fuel pump regulator and the radiator and overflow expansion tank were both empty and nasty with rust. Oil didn't look bad.

Keep in mind this car has sat for over 2 years untouched so expected some issues and neglect but overall the car seems like something worth fixing up. I'm going to recommend a list of parts to bring the car where he wants it to be, just a fun and reliable cruiser.

Power wire upgrade
Stealth 320 fuel pump
60lb injectors
alky injection (or put the stock turbo back on it)
turbo tweak chip (which one and what other supporting mods?)
3" down pipe
New valve springs because I think he's running stock but did not confirm. (which ones are stock drop ins?)
new valve seals since I'm going to be there when I remove the springs
power logger
fresh o2's

Any input is appreciated here.

 

[20psiofevil]

Can someone confirm this is stuck fuel pump wiring and anything on what trim the car is? We're thinking it's a we4? Does have t tops and Canadian car with speedometer in kmh

 

[captndave737]

A scanmaster is a display that shows what the ECM sees and only logs minimum NB O2 and the corresponding MPH along with maximum knock retard with it's MPH. It updates once every 1.4 seconds.


A scanmaster hooked to a powermaster will update 18 times per second and display everything and a few things extra. The powermaster hooked to a laptop will log everything the ECM sees and a few addons, like a wideband, if they are installed.

Damn Earl, I got rid of my powermaster years ago and replaced it with Hydroboost. Now I find out I have to go back so I can log everything>

 

[earlbrown]

Damn Earl, I got rid of my powermaster years ago and replaced it with Hydroboost. Now I find out I have to go back so I can log everything>

Make sure you get the FBI powermaster. That's the only one that datalogs from the GPS satellites.

 

[20psiofevil]

What's a power master? You talking about the logger? What's the FBI version, and do they have a muller edition so the Russians can't see my tune file?

Are there drop in valve springs for these engines that are 130-140lb seat pressure? What chip would y'all recommend for 60lb squirter's?

 

[ATL_87GN]

What's a power master? You talking about the logger? What's the FBI version, and do they have a muller edition so the Russians can't see my tune file?

Are there drop in valve springs for these engines that are 130-140lb seat pressure? What chip would y'all recommend for 60lb squirter's?

Power Master is the stock brake system. There is a big accumulator ball hanging off the master cylinder facing the drivers fender and a large motor about 3”x7” cylinder under the master cylinder. (No vacuum brake booster)

I would verify it’s a roller cam before installing valve springs that strong. If it is a roller cam, Comp 941, Kmotion k700/k750 and pac 1201 are usually common springs used.

If it was replaced with a flat tappet cam, you want something closer to 100lbs in the seat. For that a comp 980 or sealed power VS739R will work.

TurboTweak is the best chip for a stock ecu. If it has a wide band O2 the 6.1 is better, if not get a matching 5.7 chip. Make sure Eric knows what brand 60lb injectors they are also.