6466 Turbo Talk.

Using a turbosmart iwg actuator and a MAC valve, I've been successful at calibrating internal gates for flex fuel setups that can run low boost for gasoline and high boost for E85 using only the duty cycle from the ECU for control. This particular car was able to run close to 30psi using the same hardware that ran as low as 11.8psi. This is using the ECUGN boost controller logic, configured to slew closed loop boost targets based on ethanol content. This logic is configurable, and can be based on any number of different inputs besides ethanol content. Gear, VSS, or a hardwired switch for example.

Some snippets from the same car showing the wastegate / boost pressure responding to duty
at 0% boost duty 11.8psi, gasoline
View attachment 395521
45% and 18.3psi
View attachment 395523
55% yielding 21.8psi
View attachment 395524

and at 67% boost duty 24.5psi on E85 (sorry about the tire spin)
View attachment 395522
I've used those as well
We think alike
Made custom bracketing to give more control/leverage over the gate with internal duel port
Was able to run 50psi of boost.
lasted a good while till heat/backpressure and bracketing fatigue lead to loss off the control in boost on this particular car.
The electronic controller sensitivity vs adjustments response time showed a gap.
Switched to external gate and co2 and 0 issues as long as the bottle is filled😉
The internal gate just did not react as fast as the external if multiple stages of ramps were in play and internal could not lower boost low enough with rpm leave to adapt to multiple surfaces on a higher hp level being applied over time in terms of hp over distances is what we found over extensive testing.
 
I want to reiterate what Mr.Spool said about internal gates versus external gates. You can make all the power you want with an internal gate and you can make as much boost as that turbo can make and you can have zero boost creep, which doesn't concern me at all, not even a little bit, in fact I'm all for some boost creep in the higher RPMs.
The bottom line is that the internal gate can either make low boost or high boost. The benefit of the external gate is that it can make both low boost and high boost. Of course, this can only be accomplished with the addition of an electronic boost controller. The benefit of the external wastegate is that you can make lower boost early in a run and ramp it up. You can't do this with an internal gate I've never been to the track with my car and I have an old 6776 cast wheeled turbo that's spools very well now that I have a 273 cubic inch engine bolted to it, but because I only have an internal wastegate, my car is useless in a street race. The much better / more versatile external wastegate would cure that problem.
Also with the electronic controller and external the ramp can be programmed for boost response.
Getting that controller power into the car without shocking the suspension
Gets guys to really hammer on the street sometimes surpassing their track times
 
@BEATAV8 What size turbo and how big of a wastegate hole did you need to make? That is pretty good control; but to be fair the turbosmart actuator is a bit nicer than the stock style one. Also, is a dual port or single port acuator?
This car had a 6262 or a 6266 with the hole ported to match a typical 3” pipe like a houston. The actuator was one of the single port units. Can’t recall which spring was in this one. The owner of the car was the one that put it all together and selected the parts. I was so impressed by how well it worked that I picked up a turbosmart actuator for our station wagon to support its flex fuel.
 
Done a few 3 bolt with ta headers and 3.5 dp.
Go right to the .85 3 bolt pte ex housing nothing smaller.
Does the PTE need any modifications? I see the GN1 Turbo Exhaust says it need to milled to the exhaust wheel.
 
Does anyone have feed back on the .63 vs .85 ar housing for a street car (not street racer) and occasional track runs. I understand these turbos today don't compare to the older styles but it's always been the .85 was not good for a street car. Engine mods and converter will have much to do with how the responsive the housing would be of course. My only reference is a friend that ran 10.2 with the PTE 6466 second gen with .63 housing.
 
Does anyone have feed back on the .63 vs .85 ar housing for a street car (not street racer) and occasional track runs. I understand these turbos today don't compare to the older styles but it's always been the .85 was not good for a street car. Engine mods and converter will have much to do with how the responsive the housing would be of course. My only reference is a friend that ran 10.2 with the PTE 6466 second gen with .63 housing.
Yes very true
That was the thinking for sure and for good reason.
But.....
On multiple combos with the triple bb ctr wheels they spool so fast going to the bigger ar is the smarter way.
Spooling faster and getting the backpressure down can and needs to be done😉
Dynoman ran the same 64 bb turbo as you with a .63 ex housing.
We switched him to a 67/71 triple bb on an .85 pte and off the footbrake it spooled to 34psi in .5 sec from 1psi🙂
I won tell you how much more power it made as well😎
Also at any rpm while cruising boost can be made or recovered while driving.
that's a 6mm increase on turbine wheel and 3mm increase on compressor wheel with a massive increase going to the .85 ex housing vs the .63.
That's what the newer turbos can be all about.
I've had the same result on with my stuff as well on even bigger turbos
This info is on buicks too not some import😉
 
I've used those as well
We think alike
Made custom bracketing to give more control/leverage over the gate with internal duel port
Was able to run 50psi of boost.
lasted a good while till heat/backpressure and bracketing fatigue lead to loss off the control in boost on this particular car.
The electronic controller sensitivity vs adjustments response time showed a gap.
Switched to external gate and co2 and 0 issues as long as the bottle is filled😉
The internal gate just did not react as fast as the external if multiple stages of ramps were in play and internal could not lower boost low enough with rpm leave to adapt to multiple surfaces on a higher hp level being applied over time in terms of hp over distances is what we found over extensive testing.
Also with the electronic controller and external the ramp can be programmed for boost response.
Getting that controller power into the car without shocking the suspension
Gets guys to really hammer on the street sometimes surpassing their track times
Mr. Stool. Sure is a lot of word salad. Not sure what you're surprised about with Beat my meat's v8 data logs showing internal gates can work just fine. No one ever said that internal is better than external, or as far as I know weren't even trying to make an argument or even make any comparisons to an external gate setup. The only point I was trying to make is that your response to the boost control issue immediately trashing his cars set up, and telling him his problem is because he is using an internal gate, made me think why are you even posting anything in this thread at all... I thought the point is to help people if you're knowledgeable? Nothing you said was relevant to his issue, and all you cared about was talking about how much you know, and so many things you said were just plain wrong. It wasn't even fun to try to mess with you, because you were doing a better job making yourself sound than I would've been able to if I ended up having to try. Many things that you claim can only be done with external gate setup just shows your limited experience. Sorry, but you're opinion about how limited internal gates are is exact is just that. Your opinion. Not based on facts.
 
Using a turbosmart iwg actuator and a MAC valve, I've been successful at calibrating internal gates for flex fuel setups that can run low boost for gasoline and high boost for E85 using only the duty cycle from the ECU for control. This particular car was able to run close to 30psi using the same hardware that ran as low as 11.8psi. This is using the ECUGN boost controller logic, configured to slew closed loop boost targets based on ethanol content. This logic is configurable, and can be based on any number of different inputs besides ethanol content. Gear, VSS, or a hardwired switch for example.

Some snippets from the same car showing the wastegate / boost pressure responding to duty
at 0% boost duty 11.8psi, gasoline
View attachment 395521
45% and 18.3psi
View attachment 395523
55% yielding 21.8psi
View attachment 395524

and at 67% boost duty 24.5psi on E85 (sorry about the tire spin)
View attachment 395522
My words about controlling boost are directed toward different boost levels during one quarter mile run. Low boost early in the run and then ramping it up. However it is pretty impressive that you can go from 11 PSI to 30 PSI without changing spring pressure holding the puck closed. You must have very low back pressure and I must have very high. After I ported my wastegate hole years ago before thinking about it I created a situation where more area of my puck could be pushed on by the pressure in the exhaust which limited how high I could get my boost to go. I added an external spring to add more pressure closing the wastegate and then I was able to achieve maximum boost which is 24 PSI on my large engine with my old 6776 turbo. It is simply out of breath and blowing all it can blow, but because of my large puck and high exhaust pressure, I have no way to lower the boost from the 24 that it currently makes without using a lighter spring and then I wouldn't be able to make 24 lb of boost. I don't even run a boost controller. I just have a hose going from the nipple on my compressor cover right straight to the actuator.Even though you can't ramp the boost up during a run, what you're able to do is pretty impressive. You must have a lot less back pressure than I do and maybe even a smaller wastegate hole. If you could somehow install a port on the other side of the diaphragm of your wastegate actuator, then you could use compressed air and a smart boost controller that you could program a map that would allow you to start out with very low boost in a run and ramp it up.
 
Mr. Stool. Sure is a lot of word salad. Not sure what you're surprised about with Beat my meat's v8 data logs showing internal gates can work just fine. No one ever said that internal is better than external, or as far as I know weren't even trying to make an argument or even make any comparisons to an external gate setup. The only point I was trying to make is that your response to the boost control issue immediately trashing his cars set up, and telling him his problem is because he is using an internal gate, made me think why are you even posting anything in this thread at all... I thought the point is to help people if you're knowledgeable? Nothing you said was relevant to his issue, and all you cared about was talking about how much you know, and so many things you said were just plain wrong. It wasn't even fun to try to mess with you, because you were doing a better job making yourself sound than I would've been able to if I ended up having to try. Many things that you claim can only be done with external gate setup just shows your limited experience. Sorry, but you're opinion about how limited internal gates are is exact is just that. Your opinion. Not based on facts.
I stand by my experience and plenty of facts
The external is needed when you want to have full/reliable control of boost.
Which is what racers want and how they adapt to different surfaces and have consistency
And I've stated the pros and cons of using the internal gate vs external.
You like many think of boost as an actual reference point
When in fact one cars 30psi can be another cars 20psi.
anybody who has the know how and the money to run external gates and electronic controllers do it
Period.
They dont say ahh I'm going internal to give me full control so I can angle my rod with 25% more leverage and that might do it🙄
Or blame jason cause you lost they race because you think in all your wisdom that he designed it wrong🙄
Even though he makes more power than you with the same product😁
Here is the cheatsheat
Boost control is where it's at for a reason of which you clearly cant understand.
the internal gates on these cars are old and alot are worn down and out and were never designed for what these new turbos can do on built motors.
And btw I've posted more current info on this thread to help others and do so on this board for a long time.
Since you want to make things personal
Take your high 9 sec track car and make a street pass and you will see how good your setup is(if you havent already)
I guarentee from the way your talking your nowhere near your track times
While others can not only duplicate but sometimes go even faster on the street.
Here is another cheatsheat for ya
A 62mm is way light to run 9s on the street on a full weight turbo regal these are facts which is why most cant.
and if the truth be told its even on the light side for the track as well
You already have the high $ computer
Go get those draggy times😉
 
Is the name calling needed?
it seems he thinks he needs to try to insult me to have a conversation
I'm at point where I'm thinking
What else does he have😉
It's funny though when he talks about experience.
I could go into more detail but I think I've given plenty so far.
 
My words about controlling boost are directed toward different boost levels during one quarter mile run. Low boost early in the run and then ramping it up. However it is pretty impressive that you can go from 11 PSI to 30 PSI without changing spring pressure holding the puck closed. You must have very low back pressure and I must have very high. After I ported my wastegate hole years ago before thinking about it I created a situation where more area of my puck could be pushed on by the pressure in the exhaust which limited how high I could get my boost to go. I added an external spring to add more pressure closing the wastegate and then I was able to achieve maximum boost which is 24 PSI on my large engine with my old 6776 turbo. It is simply out of breath and blowing all it can blow, but because of my large puck and high exhaust pressure, I have no way to lower the boost from the 24 that it currently makes without using a lighter spring and then I wouldn't be able to make 24 lb of boost. I don't even run a boost controller. I just have a hose going from the nipple on my compressor cover right straight to the actuator.Even though you can't ramp the boost up during a run, what you're able to do is pretty impressive. You must have a lot less back pressure than I do and maybe even a smaller wastegate hole. If you could somehow install a port on the other side of the diaphragm of your wastegate actuator, then you could use compressed air and a smart boost controller that you could program a map that would allow you to start out with very low boost in a run and ramp it up.
Cylinder pressure and Back pressure is key.
That why some have good results and some cant.
One thing is for sure though if you had an external and a good controller you could have whatever boost you commanded all the way down and up and have gate reaction almost instantly.
These are the advantages of a co2 external system.
And it works on all different combos with the properly sized wastegate😉
 
Not sure what you're surprised about with Beat my meat's v8 data logs showing internal gates can work just fine.
That's not what that means
You clearly dont understand.
It works for the way his setup is.
I've put those internal higher $ gates on the stock stuff and it has its limitations and it doesn't give full control over the boost curve with reaction times needed on stronger running cars that need to adapt quickly to various conditions.
 
Using a turbosmart iwg actuator and a MAC valve, I've been successful at calibrating internal gates for flex fuel setups that can run low boost for gasoline and high boost for E85 using only the duty cycle from the ECU for control. This particular car was able to run close to 30psi using the same hardware that ran as low as 11.8psi.
One thing is for sure though if you had an external and a good controller you could have whatever boost you commanded all the way down and up
I've known this Truth for many many years and yet I still don't have one. I'm starting to think that I might possibly be the most lazy person on the planet.
 
That's not what that means
You clearly dont understand.
It works for the way his setup is.
I've put those internal higher $ gates on the stock stuff and it has its limitations and it doesn't give full control over the boost curve with reaction times needed on stronger running cars that need to adapt quickly to various conditions.
In all fairness Dvernst simply responded to your claim that a poster couldn’t keep boost from running away because he didn’t have an external gate.

I’ve seen what Dave did to modify the RJC swing arm and it IS a flawed design with regards to leverage.

You responded with a long winded response that went way beyond what Dave was talking about, in your usual fashion.
 
any comparisons to an external gate setup. The only point I was trying to make is that your response to the boost control issue immediately trashing his cars set up, and telling him his problem is because he is using an internal gate, made me think why are you even posting anything in this thread at all... I thought the point is to help people if you're knowledgeable
An external gate and good boost controller would have solved his issue immediately and long term
I went to a real solution and the best one.
And that's not the only point you had
You wanted to try to show me you were going 9s on a glued track with a tailwind in a light car on a 62 with its tongue out running an internal gate like that's something new and all the new teck isnt needed.
meanwhile for alot of guys that realize the downfalls of the internal gate is when they modify the cars and want to get consistent adaptable performance by having full control over the boost system.
The external co2 system does that.
Dont believe me
You dont need to
Look at how many thread are wastegate related on this site😉
Look at what the racers use and what they are doing.
Ask a real tuner how they will tune a car and what they want to see to control boost.
Then tell me how wrong I am😉
 
I've known this Truth for many many years and yet I still don't have one. I'm starting to think that I might possibly be the most lazy person on the planet.
once you put one on your going to kick yourself
I did.
Especially when I looked at the draggy😁
 
In all fairness Dvernst simply responded to your claim that a poster couldn’t keep boost from running away because he didn’t have an external gate.

I’ve seen what Dave did to modify the RJC swing arm and it IS a flawed design with regards to leverage.

You responded with a long winded response that went way beyond what Dave was talking about, in your usual fashion.
Read the thread
Its turbo talk
long winded to you but others appreciate all the info on the new turbos that they can benefit on which is what this thread was about.
Before you defend your boy there
He attacked me
And continues to do so.
And I gave the guy a real solution not a re angle the rod and try this solution.
 
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