300hp possible from NA 4.1L?

[joedirtmcd3]

Hey guys, I wish I could just fit a turbo setup into my chevette - seems like it would be so much more fun.. But as of now I am poor. I wanted to eventually go to forced induction on my 4.1L via p1sc procharger only because of the space restriction in my engine compartment dont really allow for a turbo setup.

Problem is, I won't be able to afford a supercharger for another couple years 'til i get out of college and pay off some debt. In the meantime I want to crank out as much HP as possible from the V6. Currently I have somewhere around 180hp at the wheels with the following setup:
-.040 over Hypers (maybe 8:1 compression?)
-50% race balance
-high volume oil pump
-Iskendarian 270H camshaft
-Stock unported iron heads
-Hooker Headers (2.5" collector)
-restrictive 2" into y pipe exhaust
-Weiand X-Celerator intake manifold
-Edelbrock 500cfm carb(stock jets)
-Holley Cheater nitrous plate

I really want the motor to pull all the way through to 6000rpm if possible, but I guess I'm going to lose alot of low end since it's NA. Right now Ive been shifting at 5000 because Im afraid of what the valvetrain can handle - not to mention it doesnt feel like it has much power that high.

What numbers do you think are possible and what mods do I still need to invest in?

 

[turbofabricator]

Have your heads ported, increase cam to a hydraulic roller in the 224-230@.050 range, mill the heads/steel shim heads gaskets to increase compression. Open up the exhaust, MSD distributor and box, Did I mention porting your heads? Engined are air pumps. Help it pump air.

 

[87GNSteve]

Look into one of those remote turbo setups. The turbo is mounted under the car, I read a few late model GTO had them with great results.

 

[joedirtmcd3]

oh i forgot

I do have a MSD HEI coil in my standard vacuum advance distributor as well as an MSD HEI distributor module. I want to go with the billet distributor from MSD but it costs $380+ and then I'd need the MSD box and coil on top of that.

I want to port match the intake to the heads~ unless there's a set of aluminum heads that have exhaust ports to match the headers I already have, the headers were specifically made by Hooker for the Buick 3.8/4.1 swap into a chevette. How much does port matching cost (porting heads and intake manifold)?
Also, I remember reading that these motors could be used upwards of 7000rpm. Does this require roller rockers? Where can I get a Roller rocker and camshaft setup?

 

[49-blues]

Go with a 350 chevy much easier.

 

[fuzzyGN]

It is not very easy to get a production 4.1L and production heads to 300hp. There is no way to get one there with low compression without a power adder. I have a 4.1L with stock casting heads that are ported, milled, block decked, about 8.6:1 CR, big cam (not roller), Kenne Bell single plane manifold, Big Hooker headers and header mufflers, Holley 600, adjustable valvetrain, etc, etc. On the rollers it makes about 175 to the wheels. We are at about 4500 feet so it is down on power from sea level about 15% but still. It isn't exactly everyday driver material either. Not much else you can do without the compression to get to 300hp. Don't be afraid to cam or carb the N/A motors; thery like it big Put a bigger pill in it and call it good.

 

[unboostedV6]

Boy, you turbo guys can be such sour pusses.... sorry to barge in on the thread ! GB

 

[fuzzyGN]

Who is being sour? I think there is some good real-world info in here. As far as I am concerned, Greg is a super valuable source of info for non-boosted applications.

IMO, anyone can build a SBC; who cares? Brand loyality and making something work even though it isn't mainstream or easy is the fun part. Whooping up on V8's with a little V6 is the best ever. The look on their face when they count the number of plug wires is priceless. When they don't find nitrous either they instantly turn into ricers; all of the excuses in the world. I actually made a guy in a Viper leave the track because I 60 footed him in my Vega. When he returned to the pits everyone was laughing at him. He got p!ssed and left. What excuse can you come up with then? I wouldn't put a Chevy in my car if it was given to me. Again, my opinion. I can't imagine trying to put one in a Chevette anyway. Sure would run hot and be a nose heavy pig to drive. Stay Buick and be happy. There are many closet N/A lovers here.

 

[49-blues]

I could only get about 200hp out of mine,kb cam, hi rev lifters, #1 single plane intake,recalibrated quadrajet,headman headers,truecatback exhaust, hi compression pistons .030 ,etc.

 

[fuzzyGN]

I get that (200hp at sea level) with 8.6 to one CR so I know there is more in it. I am going with about 13 to 1 next time to really find out what it can do. For all out performance, a Holley 600 is needed and a big by large cam. My new one is 260 at .050 lift! Greg has one even bigger than that!! As stated before, they like em big.

 

[joedirtmcd3]

camshafts

now, are u guys getting custom ground camshafts or are these somewhat readily available for me to choose and purchase? What is there by way of solid roller camshafts for NA application?

if there isnt much, what about hydraulic roller cam? what kind of RPMs could the hydraulic setup handle? 5500? 6000? more?

 

[49-blues]

I think if you seriously want a honest 300 hp you will need to go to a stage2 NA motor. where i ve seen them get atleast 650hp. without a turbo!

 

[unboostedV6]

OK, I'll get out of defensive mode...The gentleman asked if 300hp is possible from a production style 4.1, normally aspirated. Short answer is Yes... GB

 

[fc227]

Boy, you turbo guys can be such sour pusses.... sorry to barge in on the thread ! GB

Not all of us. :smile:

Listen to Greg, I have seen his car run in person.

 

[VKREGAL]

Do you have videos of your car on youtube? If its not you there is a guy on youtube with a chevette with a 4.1 doing burnouts. It's a sweet ride.

 

[unboostedV6]

...trying to remember if I've ever seen Fred in a tizzy. He usually is a very positive attitude kind of guy! GB

 

[turbobob924]

I still have my Jim Ruggles power build up. He used a production 4.1 and custom cam and made around 250 HP. I can't believe that the edlebrock top end kit and ported heads off a turbo cars can't make 300HP.

Heck, add some nitrous!

 

[joedirtmcd3]

Youtube videos

yeah I have some vids up on youtube of my ol 'vette. I haven't put any up in a long time. Yeah I've got a nitrous kit on there - but I want to have as much power as possible all the time, not just when I hit the bottle.

Eventually I wanted to get the MSD timing control so I could just switch the timing up on the fly while cruising the streets then shoot maybe 150hp or 200hp into it. I'd also need a remote bottle opener cuz it might be awkward seeing the guy next to you climbing over the back seat at every red light to open or close the bottle...

im excited about a set orf roller rockers and a meaner camshaft, preferrably roller (hydraulic or solid) but I don't know where I can get one, maybe I need to lok into camshaft specs so I can get a custom grind for a hydraulic roller cam???

 

[VKREGAL]

Have you ever taken it to the track?

 

[joedirtmcd3]

to the track? nope

I bought the car the fall of my senior year of high school and its been quite the time consuming project ever since. I'm on my 3rd 4.1L v6 (spun a bearing in the first one which was a remanufactured engine, also spun a bearing in the second one which i bought from a junkyard because it was hitting against the oil pan, I had no idea the clearances would be different) - gone through 5 or 6 transmissions (TH200,TH200,200-4r,700r4,700r4) (upgrades and replacing broken ones) - broken two stock chevette rear ends- finally swapped in an s10 rear end (took me 5 or 6 tries to build a torque arm strong enough for the damn thing) - put in a 15 gallon fuel cell to replace the leaky stock tank - had a wheel fall off while driving my car around the circle in my driveway, so replaced fender - had a crappy custom exhaust put on it by some guy from monroe - broke shock mounts on the front control arms - always had overheating problems, finally are fixed now (last summer it wouldnt get hotter than 160 or 165 no matter how hard i pushed it) - wrapped the headers to keep engine bay temps down - floorboard rust holes repairs

the damn thing has kept me extremely busy just to keep it on the road, but its fun as hell. I miss doing burnouts out front of my high school with it, even though i probably only drove it for about 10 random days of my senior year of high school. cant wait til it is track ready, but its not quite there yet.