3 Mufflers for a quiet system ?

[tom h]

interesting ... wonder what exhaust would sound like if ONLY the "cross flow" muffler was used, and not the 2 smaller muffs?

Anyone ever tried this ?

 

[volvoman]

I second that

Going to redo the 3 1/2 system would like to know if I could get away with just the cross over in back.

 

[turbofabricator]

I have built the system with ONE cross flow muffler in the stock location (Ultra-Flow), and it workes great! The drone is not there. I used 2 1/2" mandrel tubing, and the stainless Ultra-Flow Cross flow muffler. At WOT the engine is noticable, but not obnoxious. Adding the two other Ultra flows does help, though. It is NOT an easy system to fabricate. Most muffler shops will want a TON to fab/install it. If you do it youself with mandrel U-bends, then it's not too bad, cost wise. Time wise............Well, it's gonna take more than a Saturday afternoon, for sure. I also add flanges, so I can remove the muffer from the car, to service the fuel pump. If you have welding/cutting AND SWEARING skills, then you'll be fine.:biggrin: You can always add two additinal mufflers later, if need be. You gotta thank Dennis Hogan and Sean O'Brian for coming up with this system. Dennis HATES and I mean HATES the DRONE of these cars. His persistance overcame the DRONE! (His wallet hurts badly from all the exhaust systems he has tried.) I installed an ATR dual system, it droned too much, So, I installed a 3" muffler in the Cat position to try and help, it didn't. Then wrapped the ENTIRE exhaust system from turbo to tail pipe with thermal wrap. That didn't do much, either. So he ended up taking it to Sean (ESR RACING) and had him try just about every muffer known to man. Sean came up with the Ultra-Flow cross flow muffler. (after trying about five mufflers-I think) THAT solved the drone problem and Dennis is VERY happy with it. He just had another system built (Feb. 2007)for another T-Type he just bought. ESR is no longer in business, so another local fabricator did the work. I haven't seen it, but I hear it is ART WORK! The "fabricator" is an amazing welder/fabricator. His welds make mine look like chicken turds

 

[tom h]

I have built the system with ONE cross flow muffler in the stock location (Ultra-Flow), and it workes great! ...

Ken- pls post pictures of your exhaust, if you get a chance.

Did you consider using "band clamps" instead of flanges, or was the space for bands insufficient? The typical bands (eg, Torc-tite) seem to need a few inches of straight pipe.

Once again, perhaps the factory engineers were onto something when they specified a cross-flow style muff, although this particular OEM was quite restrictive.

 

[Roger]

Quiet

My 2 1/2" Pit Bulls drone way too loud for my taste. I keep reading posts about quiet mufflers & haven't found an answer.
The sound bite of the TA is WAY too loud.
The original 2 1/8" cross flow with the damaged, leaky muffler was much quieter than the Pit Bulls.
My wife can sneak up behind me with her Avalon & I only hear her run over an acorn. I want my TR to be that quiet.

Oh, I do have an electric cutout which can be rigged up to automatically open when the volt booster activates & still have manual control,too.

 

[turbofabricator]

I did the single cross flow muffler like pictures previously, just with-out the two mufflers in front of the rear end (axle) on a friends car a couple of years ago. I can have him drive it by and shoot a picture or two if you would like. But, it looks very stock. The drone will dissappear (COMPLETELY) if you suppliment your pit bulls with a cross-flow behind the axle housing (in the stock location) Dennis' StageII car runs three-three inch mufflers. Two Ultra-flows in the "normal" location and a modified ATR pit bull cross-flow (single in dual out) muffler. Sean cut the end off the muffler and welded a new pipe in it and sut it back up. The system (as Geno stated earlier) only cost him 7 hp (seven) on a full race set-up. (148 MPH in the 1/4). His street cars use off the self (Jeg's) Ulta-Flow mufflers, in 2 1/2".

 

[TurboBrett]

.....If you do it youself with mandrel U-bends, then it's not too bad, cost wise.....

Where did you get these?

 

[turbofabricator]

They are available from Burnsstainless.com, Jeg's, Summit, and a MULTITUDE of other performance outlets. Lately, I have been using Dairy farm stainless tubing, as it is polished inside and out for about the same price as Jeg's. Here's what they look like. They have great transitions available, and have straight tubing, too. They run about $20+ each. They are real nice to work with. I also use aluminized mild steel ALOT, as it does last along time for a fraction of the cost. Jeg's sells a street rod mandrel kit for $200 in aluminized steel, and also a stainless kit. (S&W) JEGS Street Rod Exhaust Kits - JEGS Stainless: Stainless Works Rod Builder Exhaust Kits - JEGS

 

[TurboBrett]

wow, thanks for all of the info.
Nice TT setup btw!

 

[stickybones]

Well I'm the latest member of the 3 muffler exhaust club. Love it. It's stock quiet. Still has that distinctive LC2 exhaust note the TR's are famous for. Gotta thank Bob Bailey and Dennis Hogan for the pictures of their system which helped me get mine made.

 

[BlackMetal]

I'm diggin these 3-muffler crossflow systems. Whenever I come across some money I might do this.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I'm curious how much drone I can cut back if I install a Dynomax race style glass pack muffler inline with the tail pipe?

My car is a single shot 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust system from the turbo on back....3 inch everything....downpipe, muffler, dump pipe....

 

[BlackMetal]

I don't think one more straight-through muffler in a single system is really going to lower your overall sound level (dB) by much.

Drone is less about the overall sound output, it has to do with the frequency of the exhaust tone actually causing the pipes of the exhaust system to vibrate. This is why drone only occures in a certain RPM range while driving. If it was a result of volume, the drone would just get worse as you continued to accelerate. But generally people will talk about drone and mention that it "goes away" at 3000RPM for example.

It's not the volume, it's the frequency of the exhaust tone in a certain RPM range, causing the metal of the exhaust system to resonate and bringing the annoying noise into the cabin of the car.

One $40 muffler isn't going to hurt to just try it, but getting the single shot systems to stop droning is not easy. I love single shot exhausts on these cars because it saves weight and just MAKES SENSE with the single downpipe as opposed to true dual exhaust, BUT I stick with my 2.5" duals for now because I don't want a loud car and don't want attention from the police.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Yeah that is always what I thought it was, was the vibration of the muffler at a certain RPM.

But for the longest time I always thought only Flowmasters would drone due to the metal baffles inside, and not a fiberglass packed muffller, such as a Dynomax Ultraflow. Boy was I wrong.

One experiment I once tried was this: a friend gave me an old glass pack muffler. I was tired of the ever droning Flowmaster on my 93 S-10 truck so for sh!t's and giggles I one day decided to shove the glass pack into the tail pipe of the S-10.

Holy smokes! Believe it or not I had no more drone!!! At all!!! Remove the glass pack and drone came back.

Another thing I think may play into droning is exhaust pipe size.

For example, the S-10 has a 2.5 inch single pipe with a Catco high flow cat, the Regal has a 3 inch straight shot with no cat, and my old 71 Chevelle had dual 2.5 inch pipes with H pipe and no cats (obviously) and also had the same Dynomax Ultraflow the Regal has now. All three drone.

But my 69 Nova has dual 2.25 inch pipes, no cats or h pipes and it has a Flowmaster transversial muffler. It doesn't drone, at all.

 

[turbo87regal]

Dennis HATES and I mean HATES the DRONE of these cars. His persistance overcame the DRONE! (His wallet hurts badly from all the exhaust systems he has tried.) I installed an ATR dual system, it droned too much, So, I installed a 3" muffler in the Cat position to try and help, it didn't. Then wrapped the ENTIRE exhaust system from turbo to tail pipe with thermal wrap. That didn't do much, either. So he ended up taking it to Sean (ESR RACING) and had him try just about every muffer known to man. Sean came up with the Ultra-Flow cross flow muffler. (after trying about five mufflers-I think) THAT solved the drone problem and Dennis is VERY happy with it.

Thats funny My name is Denis also and I cant stand the drone either:biggrin:

My exhaust problem started after I installed a GNX suspension on my GNX clone and changed the exhaust with a kit from Kirban using ATR pitbull mufflers and now I cant stand the exhaust . I had a Hooker system on the car before the suspension and was happy with it (no rediculous drone like the ATR pitbulls) and its now on my T-type and sounds fairly quiet just like when it was on the other car. I would love to get rid of this drone witch drives me insane everytime I take the car out for a ride but I cant run a crossflow because of the GNX suspension so I was wondering witch brand of the mufflers you guys have tried were the quietest with only 2 mufflers.

I am even considering plain replacement mufflers from a exhaust shop bacause I realy dont care if the mufflers slow down the car a little I just want this freaking drone gone

The mufflers I have now are 2.5" with center in and out

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[turbofabricator]

I am going to build a boost activated exhaust cut-out. At a flip of a switch(to open a air pressure valve), the boost will open a dump. Not the same as a electric dump, in that it will run very quiet until it hits about 12-14 psi boost. I can run a REAL restrictive and quiet muffler(s) system and then have all the power I need under boost. It will be pretty simple to fabricate. I'll just use an adjustable wastegate actuator to open the dump valve. The dump will only open under boost, and will shut as soon as the throttle is let off. If a cop hears you, it will idle and rev quietly if they say they heard you. "But........HOW officer......listen for yourself........." If it is loud under boost, it will get people out of your way. "Loud pipes, save lives" The motto of the Harley croud.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I am going to build a boost activated exhaust cut-out. At a flip of a switch(to open a air pressure valve), the boost will open a dump. Not the same as a electric dump, in that it will run very quiet until it hits about 12-14 psi boost. I can run a REAL restrictive and quiet muffler(s) system and then have all the power I need under boost. It will be pretty simple to fabricate. I'll just use an adjustable wastegate actuator to open the dump valve. The dump will only open under boost, and will shut as soon as the throttle is let off. If a cop hears you, it will idle and rev quietly if they say they heard you. "But........HOW officer......listen for yourself........." If it is loud under boost, it will get people out of your way. "Loud pipes, save lives" The motto of the Harley croud.

I think Turbo1dr did something like that. Good idea though. Loud pipes save lives.....yeah the bikers can get away with it why can't we?

I'm also interested in how you got that twin turbo set up in there.

 

[Pronto]

I am going to build a boost activated exhaust cut-out. At a flip of a switch(to open a air pressure valve), the boost will open a dump. Not the same as a electric dump, in that it will run very quiet until it hits about 12-14 psi boost. I can run a REAL restrictive and quiet muffler(s) system and then have all the power I need under boost. It will be pretty simple to fabricate. I'll just use an adjustable wastegate actuator to open the dump valve. The dump will only open under boost, and will shut as soon as the throttle is let off. If a cop hears you, it will idle and rev quietly if they say they heard you. "But........HOW officer......listen for yourself........." If it is loud under boost, it will get people out of your way. "Loud pipes, save lives" The motto of the Harley croud.

ATP TURBO - The Premiere Provider of Turbocharging Components Here you go.

 

[turbofabricator]

I'm also interested in how you got that twin turbo set up in there.

With lots of busted knuckles. Actually I remembered seeing Duttweiler doing it years ago. I was standing at the passenger front fender with the hood open. After a beer or three, I grabbed a turbo of the shelf and held it in front of the stock turbo, and figured........"Hey here is the stock twin turbo GNX/FBI deal. It took me a LONG time to 'cipher it out. Lots of cutting/tacking/welding to get it all to fit good. After I proved the system worked, I modified a set of ATR headers and moved the wastegate up top. The original system used a modified stock header. I still have the original twin turbo header and down pipe that I built. (for sale) After going to the ATR header, it really didn't improve anything, except that it looks better. The complete system is a bolt on deal. I could remove it from my car and install it on another with only the need to drill two holes in the core support for the intercooler(s) mounts. I just wanted to build something different. I got real tired of seeing cookie cutter Buicks. I didn't set out to make the fastest. It's just kinda fun to pop the hood on the car and watch peoples' expressions.:biggrin:
Looks like I don't need to make a boost activated dump. Oh wait......I can make my own. (cheap bass-terd that I am)
I will also be installing a three muffler system on this car, as soon as I finish a few other projects.

 

[kraus]

With lots of busted knuckles. Actually I remembered seeing Duttweiler doing it years ago. I was standing at the passenger front fender with the hood open. After a beer or three, I grabbed a turbo of the shelf and held it in front of the stock turbo, and figured........"Hey here is the stock twin turbo GNX/FBI deal. It took me a LONG time to 'cipher it out. Lots of cutting/tacking/welding to get it all to fit good. After I proved the system worked, I modified a set of ATR headers and moved the wastegate up top. The original system used a modified stock header. I still have the original twin turbo header and down pipe that I built. (for sale) After going to the ATR header, it really didn't improve anything, except that it looks better. The complete system is a bolt on deal. I could remove it from my car and install it on another with only the need to drill two holes in the core support for the intercooler(s) mounts. I just wanted to build something different. I got real tired of seeing cookie cutter Buicks. I didn't set out to make the fastest. It's just kinda fun to pop the hood on the car and watch peoples' expressions.:biggrin:
Looks like I don't need to make a boost activated dump. Oh wait......I can make my own. (cheap bass-terd that I am)
I will also be installing a three muffler system on this car, as soon as I finish a few other projects.

got any updated pics of the progress on it:wink: