11.70's w.o cam / heads?

D

DJay

GN Novice.
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Point me in the right direction guys ....

With your guidance I've done the preventative measures to build a faster "stock" GN. Check sig for examples. Motor mounts are goin in this week. I've priced havin a hydraulic roller 216/216 and a pocket port done on the car ($3500!!!! w.labor) and decided I'm not interested in payin so much for that work at this point.

What're the next steps for me?

I drive the car daily, but want to know I'll win most light to light / tollbooth races. We've quite a few built LS1's / modd'ed vipers and vettes not to mention the Sti's and Evo's are faster this year. I think 11.70s on a good day (consistent 12.0 car) should be fast enough.

Enlighten me oh GN gods! Show me the way and I'll represent our ranks out here on the Chicago streets. Together we'll show that GN's are still to be feared!

TIA!
 
Looks like you need a bigger turbo, such as a 44 or 49 (or a 60 if you want to go faster later but it will work better with a non-stock converter). The key to making horsepower is to move air and if you want mid-upper 11's and be able to be consistent about it without cam and heads, get a bigger turbo.

Yes, there are some running 11's with the stock turbo but there are not many (that I'm aware of anyhow). It's just easier all the way around if you upgrade your turbo. Also, make sure you're getting good cooling via radiator condition and you should also have already replaced the weak factory valve springs.

Also, you'll probably need to up the injector size to at least 009's. You need the fuel to go with the additional air and while the stocker's can get you there, you're playing with fire (in my view) to shoot for 11's without more injector than stock.

There are several 'recipes' on the www.gnttype.org website to use for a guide as well.

Hope this helps.
 
I suppose you are talking about 11.7s on pump gas? I'm not sure what my car will run on pump gas, but my combo and times are in my sig. Unopened long block. It's a very streetable combo, even with the 61 and a stock torque converter.

Scott
 
TA49
Big Neck on Stock intercooler
36 to 50 lb injectors
Run Race gas and 21 - 24 psi of boost with a RACE chip.
 
To get that fast with stock short block, you'll need boost.
for mor boost, you'll need race gas or alcohol - I personally chose alcohol because it is there all the time.
 
air, fuel, timing.

Boost really aggressive, higher octane fuel to handle the higher boost, and timing to create burst.

For a car not using race gas constantly and being daily driven.. unless you can spend the money on heads, big turbo, converter, cam, etc... you wont make any power on 93 octane.

If you want to run 11's on your stock long block, then alcohol injection is the only way to get you there. Unless you can only fill up on 104+ octane fuel all the time. And i'm saying this becase of the intent to have a quick street car... so before I get jumped a few guys running 1.4 60 foots saying they can get into the 11's at 108 mph.. its not the typical. More like 115-117 MPH, witha 1.6-1.7 60 foot.. very possible on alky.. if the motor is tuned, and is is proper working order.

Small motor needs octane to handle big boost. How you give it the octane.. your call. What it runs on race gas(octane) and what it runs without.. night and day.

hth
 
Thx for the input guys!

I'm runnin a SMC alky setup and recently ruined my 2nd n 3rd gear clutches so a trans rebuild with a 3000 stall is in my near future.

So u think i'll only need to move on to a bigger turbo (ta-60?) and learn how to 60 ft to get into the 11's?

Are there any draw backs to usin a 60 w. a 3000 stall for a daily driver?
 
classic combo for 11.7's

TA-49/TE-44, 36 lb injectors, big neck IC, good exhaust/DP, good chip, lotsa boost and 112 or better gas, slicks, and the ability to launch hard (trans brake, or really good brakes, 2800-3000 stall conveter, good rear suspension setup)

many have been there, but very few have been there missing any part of that equation
 
Originally posted by DJay

I'm runnin a SMC alky setup and recently ruined my 2nd n 3rd gear clutches so a trans rebuild with a 3000 stall is in my near future.

So u think i'll only need to move on to a bigger turbo (ta-60?) and learn how to 60 ft to get into the 11's?

Are there any draw backs to usin a 60 w. a 3000 stall for a daily driver?
Click to expand...

No drawbacks on the turbo/converter. On alky to run the number may need big boost due to timing being run on alcohol.

Tires, seat time, and tune tune tune..

Tranny.. welcome to the club :mad: :D

Woody is correct. Cept modern combo :eek: is done with 42's or 50's and alcohol. Since 36'ers are now long gone. A variable timing chip, high boost, and heavy dose of alky.

I dont discount the 112.. just that previously mentioned car is a daily driver, with very little track time. 112 would pobably be impractical in this scenario.
 
Originally posted by azgn
classic combo for 11.7's

TA-49/TE-44, 36 lb injectors, big neck IC, good exhaust/DP, good chip, lotsa boost and 112 or better gas, slicks, and the ability to launch hard (trans brake, or really good brakes, 2800-3000 stall conveter, good rear suspension setup)

many have been there, but very few have been there missing any part of that equation
Click to expand...

Yup, az is right. Been there, done that, but to get to the 11.70's I've got every bit of the above combo.
BTW,stock heads, intake etc. and a VERY mild 200 cam is the rest of my stuff.
 
I like to say running 12's on the street and 11's at the track are reasonable goals for a car with stock heads and a stock cam. However, recognize that even these goals take a reasonable investment in bolt-ons.

Guys who run 10's at the track with stock longblocks are doing so with very hard launches and huge boost. Each person must decide for himself if the potential downside of that approach is palatable.

Over the years, there have been all kinds of folks on this board and elsewhere who like to say they go 11s, reliably, for a few hundred bucks. While that's makes for a nice campfire story, and may scare a few Brand Xers not smart enough to know a liar when they see one, my experience says otherwise.
 
I like the TA61 and a 3200 stall for those goals.

Bigger is better. ;)

No downsides with a 3200 stall LOCKUP on the street and a decent turbo with stock heads and cam. :)

Name brand parts however.

PTS billet, Protorque, Vigilante, etc.
 
Originally posted by ttypewhite
Bigger isn't always better. Check out this link. http://www.geocities.com/turbod1987/page2.html
This car with razor alky kit would run the same numbers as it does with C16. The motor has never been out of the car yet. Just boltons.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't trivialize by saying "just bolt-on's". Those bolt on's you refer to are well in excess of $3500. Probably closer to $4000.

It's like strikeeagle was trying to point out. It's never as easy or cheap as the "camp fire stories" make it out to be. Once all the numbers are crunched, it still comes down to $$$
 
TurboDave
- I don't understand what you are saying about trivializing by saying "just bolt-on's". Thats all thats done to the car is just bolt-ons. Stock head and cam are still in the motor. The cost is irrelivent. You gotta pay to play, Period. I never said it was cheap, and people that want to go fast on a budget should save their lute because cheap and speed don't mix (too many corners cut). The fact still remains that the motor internals are untouched and thats what the thread was all about. People say stock parts can't go far. I say B.S. i have seen it time and time again. The title is 11.70's w.o cam / heads?
So my answer is yes its easily attentable and provided proof with the link. And if you click back onto the main page and click on his Silver T -type it ran 11.7 @ 114mph with the stock motor. Put the alky on the car and nothing would be different in terms of speed. Here is the link if you don't wish to check it out http://www.geocities.com/turbod1987/page3.html
 
Sorry I offended. But your post made it sound "easy" to run 11.70's with nothing but bolt on's. While in truth, that is true, for those folks that can spend the money for the bolt on's.
However, there is an every increasing number of much younger drivers buying T/R's these days, and they take what us "old timers" say as fact and sometimes not literally enough. A lot of this younger crowd just may not have $4000 laying around to sink into bolt on's like many of us did, and after buying a turbo, and then wondering why they cant run 11's with their brand spanking new TE44, they get frustrated.
Those of us that have been doing this for a good many years just have to keep in mind how our statements could be mis- interpreted.
If money is not so important, running 11's on a stock long block is easy.
If money is a problem, then running 11's isn't so easy.
nowatameanvern? ;)
 
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