Where's the power?

[meanchicken]

The following commentary is directed only towards me....

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OK
I feel much better now that that's outa my system.
Good news. Problem solved.:biggrin:
Turns out a rotten 4" piece of vacuum hose was the root of all my problems.
Getting through this has been a great learning experience for sure. Whatever hair I still had in September.....gone now.:redface:

I replaced the hoses from the WG solenoid to the WG and the turbo. The one to the WG was ROTTEN!!!
Glad I fixed this before it led to a blown head gasket.
It tore apart with ease when I was pulling it off the WG. The last 1/2" stayed on the WG nipple, so I gad to rip it off with some long needle nose pliers a chunk at a time.

Went out driving around and let the computer relearn. The first time I went WOT, I got 3.0KR. I drove around some more and went WOT a few more times.....absolutely ZERO KR now.
Engine pulls pretty good and runs great! I even did a couple foot brake launches. Built up about 10 pretty lights and then let go of the brakes....smoked 'em OK....still nuttin like nailing the go fast high volume switch on my ZZ502:biggrin: , but respectable. She'll get there.

Here's a pic of the satanic lil' piece of hose.
I'm thinking about wrapping these new hoses under the turbo in heat shield to protect them better.

Everything I've done as you guys guided me along has improved the performance of the car or fixed part of it's issues, so absolutley no wasted $$$.
Spring cleaning, Spark plugs/wires, coil pack, fuel filter, walbro pump, hotwire, 60lb injectors and TT chip, AFPR, ScanMaster, and a few vacuum hoses.

Next on the to do.
1) Install boost gauge:tongue: and oil pressure gauge and replace the rest of the vacuum hoses.
2) Replace leaking original shocks and broken trans mount.
3) rebuild rear brakes
4) valve sporings and timing chain/gears.
After I do all that, I'm going to go log some track time to baseline the combo.
Then I'll start with the performance enhancers (beginning with the exhaust) to get the car to the low 12 high 11 range. I'll probably have to spring for that new tranny along the way.

Thank you all for your help. This is a great message board and the GN community is a great crowd. Looking forward to meeting more of you SoCali guys.

I hope this string is a good reference for others who come in new to GN's.

My next post....
Why won't this pokey grocery gettin' old mans GN go faster than 85mph????


My 68 Camaro will go at least 160mph on a wide open South Orange County toll road:biggrin: ...don't ask me how I know that.

Tim

 

[TURBOELKY]

slap!!!



you deserve it. Glad you got that taken car of man, must feel good. i'm sure if you found that line in such bad condition, there are a few more. The lines on the egr are especially prone to deterrioration. you dont need that egr either, cap it off, and the vaccume line to it. also, does your drivers side valve cover have a hose going from the front of the valve cover, to the turbo inlet housing? if so, top the turbo off, and put a breather in the valve cover. if your car is all stock probably has alot of power robbing stuff going on. Post a pic of your engine bay, from all angles, I bet you get alot of help with that. good job bud!

 

[marred4life]

if possible try to replace all your vaccum hoses and then zip tie the ends, remember it has 20yr old rubber on it so try and replace most of them.
ps welcome to the buick community were here to help

i hate to say it but i told you so, atleast its fixed now so youll be able to enjoy it, now for some alky and boost increase :biggrin:

 

[Ttype83]

OK now that you have that fixed, time to work/break something else..
Turbo elbow...time to port it ...it's a freebie or you can send it to stevemon for porting. I did it myself, here's a couple of pics.

more porting

more

and still more

Last one

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

The vacuum lines are probably dry rotted, which is causing the turbo to overboost. Which is why you are still getting knock on the scanmaster. Do a search for a thread on vacuum lines, and someone on here has listed how much length of line and which diameters. There is also a chance that if your vacuum lines are fresh, that the wastgate actuator is no good.
Also the throttle position sensor should be around 4.85 @ wide open throttle, it should have thrown a code (21) and caused the "check engine soon" light to come on.
I got a set of silicone vacuum lines from "Gbodyparts.com".
When you had the injectors out, that would have been a great time to replace/inspect the lines. Pay particular attention to the line that hooks up to the turbo, that gets a lot of heat and is usually one of the first to go.
Your are getting there, and your doing it the right way, good luck with your new ride.
Oh by the way once the car gets into the low to mid 12's the tranny will go bad, ask me how I know....

Chuck

+1

 

[Junior Samples]

just glad nothing broke due to 20 cent peice of vac line

 

[graza002]

Tim glad to hear things are better. Again, dont know if you got my PM. Sorry about not stopping by, I said I was busy but the truth is, I went out to pick up my car in the AM then I felt like sh*t the rest of the day.

I just did all the brakes on my car. Due to the fact that your going to do an overhaul, a good suggestion for you (which is what was just done to my car)

chevy s-10 rear cyl. and 4 long pads (buy two sets and return one set with 4 short pads)

Once you get everything else fixed talk to Grumpy aka Dan on this board. He is the KING of budget builds. He will tell ya how to get into 12's with a stock turbo

 

[TurboMonte 2]

Congrats on the long-awaited find. You are very lucky to get by w/o a blown HG or 2 during your engine beatings w/ quick & uncontrolled boost. You need be bitch-slapped for not moving fwd with a good boost gauge setup earlier!!

Pls look on the PASS side for the VC line to turbo that Elky was referring to "on drivers side"...

 

[TURBOELKY]

Congrats on the long-awaited find. You are very lucky to get by w/o a blown HG or 2 during your engine beatings w/ quick & uncontrolled boost. You need be bitch-slapped for not moving fwd with a good boost gauge setup earlier!!

Pls look on the PASS side for the VC line to turbo that Elky was referring to "on drivers side"...

oops, I ment passenger side valve cover thanks for pointing that out, this guy would have been confused:biggrin:

 

[meanchicken]

Hey Andy.
No worries.
It would have sucked to drive the 20 miles just to help me change a simple vac line, but there were moments while I wrastled around the turbo to get the line back on the WG where I was wishing for another hand.

Yup....driver side valve cover vac line to the turbo...it would have confused me...I went out looking for it. I know I deserve all the verbal abuse so keep it coming....I can take it.
Firing orders confuse me too...that's why I installed some of those little number tabs on my spark plug wires...:redface:

When we meet, I'll give each of you one free swing at me.

Boost gauge gets ordered tonight.

By the way, the one to the turbo....it's one of the set (4 total) that I replaced in the pic in my post above. The rotten one was the WG line, and the other behind it was the one going to the turbo. 3 of the 4 including the line to the turbo from the Y fitting were in OK shape, and the one that went to the Y fitting from the WG solenoid was also in good shape. I had checked them way back, but totally missed the Y fitting and the one line to the WG since that Y fitting was tucked way down out of sight. I replaced all of them. I'll go through the rest of the rubber vac lines under the hood next. Another once over and most of them look OK, but a couple at the EGR are shadey looking too.
What about all the plastic lines? Any kits out there for these?

Here are some shots of the engine as it currently looks.
It needs a cleaning...

And a couple of my Camaro....so you guys can see I CAN do something right...
ZZ502, TK0-600, Moser 12-bolt, Global West tubular control arms, QA1 coil overs, SSBC 4 wheel power disk brakes, Hochkiss sway bar, GNX quick ratio power steering box, solid body mounts, poly rear bushings...and a bunch more.
About 550 HP and 575 TQ...and it runs on 91 octane with no pinging.....

Tim

 

[meanchicken]

Hey 83Ttype.
How much power is that turbo elbow porting worth?
Did you just use a die grinder and whittle away?
Pix are explanitory....but is there any such thing as removing too much?

 

[graza002]

Tim,

When are you going to start the next project on the GN? You should know how it is, fix one problem and move to the next (provided you didnt cause a larger problem).

Glad to see/hear progress on the car.

 

[TURBOELKY]

yup, its there and its nasty. in that pic of the passenger side, you need to junk that hose going from the front of the valve cover to the turbo. top off the turbo and put a breather in the vc.

 

[meanchicken]

yup, its there and its nasty. in that pic of the passenger side, you need to junk that hose going from the front of the valve cover to the turbo. top off the turbo and put a breather in the vc.

Got it....I misunderstood. Thought you were talking abut the vacuum line.

Yes, the breather install is on the list too.

 

[Junior Samples]

Tim,

Looks like a Leaker there

 

[meanchicken]

Is there a gasket in there to replace?

 

[graza002]

Is there a gasket in there to replace?

Its either blow by from that breather or a bad seal on the turbo. It would be a good idea to pull the intake pipe off to check turbo (check for shaft play side to side as well is front to back) There is also some cleaning info for the IC at gnttype.org

Its a good idea to clean as many of those saturated areas so you can monitor oil blow by as well as leaks (note, these motors leak, and all areas cant cleaned. Go for the most obvious) A ton of brake cleaner will do the trick.

 

[Junior Samples]

Its either blow by from that breather or a bad seal on the turbo. It would be a good idea to pull the intake pipe off to check turbo (check for shaft play side to side as well is front to back) There is also some cleaning info for the IC at gnttype.org

Yup, from look of splash after gasket like Andrew said , prolly blowby from that breather and wore out gasket, I just went to advance auto and did a gasket match, such as gooseneck gasket , I stuck mine on with some spray tac and took Xacto knife and carved it out a little cause it wasnt a perfect match but the holes lined up,...then a little sanding on edge then sealed it with finger of spray tac.

hmmm eye of bat and finger of spray tac... anyway it worked cause i was not about to special order and wait 4 days

 

[meanchicken]

Its either blow by from that breather or a bad seal on the turbo. It would be a good idea to pull the intake pipe off to check turbo (check for shaft play side to side as well is front to back) There is also some cleaning info for the IC at gnttype.org

Its a good idea to clean as many of those saturated areas so you can monitor oil blow by as well as leaks (note, these motors leak, and all areas cant cleaned. Go for the most obvious) A ton of brake cleaner will do the trick.

Thanks.
Is there a gasket on that turbo intake pipe that I'll need to replace once I break it loose?

Is it easy enough, or worth it, to rebuild one of these turbo's? Even if I go for a replacement (if that's what is needed), I'll either stay with the stock size or possibly one size up. I don't see myself ever dialing up more than 20lbs of boost.

I replaced a few more rotten vacuum lines tonight. Two of the shorties going to the EGR, the shorty going to the cruise control and the shorty at the vacuum canister near the cold air box. The rest are in reasonable shape and I'll have to go buy a bunch more vacuum line to finish all of them off anyway, so I just replaced those that were definitely suspect.

Tim

 

[graza002]

Thanks.
Is there a gasket on that turbo intake pipe that I'll need to replace once I break it loose?

Not to my knowledge.

Is it easy enough, or worth it, to rebuild one of these turbo's? Even if I go for a replacement (if that's what is needed), I'll either stay with the stock size or possibly one size up. I don't see myself ever dialing up more than 20lbs of boost.Tim

You can have the stock turbo rebuilt, people have been in the 12's with it.

Check it before you buy anything, unless you want to spend some $$$

Personally, I don't like the stock turbo. The turbo it self has a 270degree thrust bearing, which is not as strong as a 360 degree. In simpler terms, a TA-49 is a good "one size" larger turbo over stock, that will comply with a stock D-5 converter, and will get you to where you want to be.