Wild alky idea

tminer

Not quite normal
Joined
May 25, 2001
Was out of the game for about 13 years until recently. Was looking thru stored stuff and found an ATR 7th injector I'd forgotten about (never used it, must have bought it used early on). Also have and old SMC with pump in bottle that I cannibalized for controller and float. I also just learned that E85 can be 51-93%. I have sensor and SD2, and wasn't planning on alky but all this got synapses firing and thought about using SMC controller and 7th injector size for baseline flow and ATR for proportional control since it is piggybacked off of main injectors.

Upsides would be SD2 could implement overboost/max rpm/? control. Should be truly proportional. Fun to do.

Downsides are how 7th injector will distribute alky as it comes out thru a 9/64" or so hole from vacuum block area (it replaces same). Also I believe it is based on just 1 injector's "signal", so not sure if that matters. Also what about running injector with no fuel for short periods if it relies on it for cooling. I could control arming it at same time as SMC, but would want to have its trigger boost lower than SMC starting point for in car control. Probably other stuff I am forgetting or haven't thought of yet.

Thanks for reading. Feedback welcome, except that of the "Why not just buy a proven kit..." variety. I already know that's what a "normal" person would do!
 
I think the methanol will kill a gasoline injector, so injector will have to be meth compatible. If you want an add on, Bison alky plate, and an ISAC controller. You could also use the Bison plate with an Alky control.
 
Feedback welcome,
playing around with fuel/octane delivery percentages and volume is a dangerous thing.the higher % of meth to be introduced in the motor the more the better kit shows its worth.if your going to run a small % of meth on top of a high gas ratio a less capable kit has a chance,then the reliability factor plays a role.then there is the reality of curving the fuel into the motor.
 
We are actually going to be doing something similar with our car that is going for the stock drivetrain/stock turbo record for the TR.

I don't know if the SD2 has an overboost shutdown parameter in it. The 7th injector, if placed in the right spot, will help to atomize the fuel in a manner that is better suited for cooling the air and turbo off, compared to the M10 or M15 nozzles that the alky kits come with.

Also, if you want to be sure on the percentage of ethanol in your E85, you can always buy "Race" E85 from a racing fuel distributor. Sunoco, VP, Renegade...all of them sell their own blends of both leaded and unleaded E85. They use 85% ethanol and the other 15% is race gas, and they mix it together to form what I like to call "Race E85" and you know that you will always have the same octane as before, when using this stuff.

We will be using a 7th injector and injecting methanol into the air stream, except we will be doing it in a different location than yours, for various reasons ;)

We are also deleting the stock IC as well, since it is a huge restriction, and running a "U" pipe from the turbo to the throttle body. We're going to be using "Race" E85 for fuel, for whatever it is worth.
 
Thanks all. The new injectors that I've looked at are methanol compatible. Yes SD2 does have options to shutdown fuel for rev limit and over boost, but wouldn't use with typical alky setups that would continue to spray. Obviously this isn't something to just throw on and go, but thought it was an interesting concept.
 
Thanks all. The new injectors that I've looked at are methanol compatible. Yes SD2 does have options to shutdown fuel for rev limit and over boost, but wouldn't use with typical alky setups that would continue to spray. Obviously this isn't something to just throw on and go, but thought it was an interesting concept.

If you can somehow use an ancillary input/output to have the SD2 control the 7th injector pulses/flow and have that flow mapped/correspond with a boost pressure map, that would be perfect.

You could select the flow output of the 7th injector as it relates to boost pressure.

With something like that, I would think about running an ancillary tank with it's own fuel pump/lines that can be triggered off maybe a Hobbs Switch, similar to how the Alky kit is triggered off the map sensor at the selected boost pressure.

I don't know if the SD2 chip can do all of that...that sounds to me more like something you would be able to do with an external ECM...

But I think I get what you are trying to do, and I think it would be a totally badass idea!
 
SD2 is limited to ecm functions. It can read map and wideband via PL. I haven't found where it can utilize the other PL inputs, but they can be logged by PL. It can read fuel sensor via maf connection since both are frequency based. It might be able to control alky through boost control output, but would lose boost control, or maybe could do both. It can run closed loop between wideband and fuel. Not sure if it does between map and boost control output.

I am just thinking about using 7th injector for alky so that once enabled it would be inherently linearly progressive with amoung of fuel, which should follow boost. The 7th injector sizing would get it close to the target fuel/alky ratio, and the pump speed or duty cycle would fine tune it.
 
Check out this kit that injects alky strait into the turbo
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Check out this kit that injects alky strait into the turbo

I think this would technically be into the outlet of the turbo. The alky is being sprayed into the air that has been compressed already. I think that you would get more benefit spraying into the inlet (low pressure side). Cool setup tho.
 
The worst thing with using an injector for alky injection is what cylinder is gonna grab the hit of meth and which are going to just grab air hence why alky kits are continuous flow so all the air is mixed with meth not rich and lean pockets of mix
 
That's an interesting injection location.
 
The worst thing with using an injector for alky injection is what cylinder is gonna grab the hit of meth and which are going to just grab air hence why alky kits are continuous flow so all the air is mixed with meth not rich and lean pockets of mix

Could be, that's where the Aquamist port inj would work. jetted to each cyl's needs.
Add in, proficiency at reading plugs, and maybe, a set of egt probes?
 
Could be, that's where the Aquamist port inj would work. jetted to each cyl's needs.
Add in, proficiency at reading plugs, and maybe, a set of egt probes?
devils own and nx has direct port as well.it really can be a tuning nightmare though,egt and plug reading a must since the jetting has to be based on individual cylinder requirements.direct port is not as easy as people think,multiple pumps,controllers and the ability to jet each cylinder
 
Think I'll stay with the tried and true Alkycontrol system and up pipe location until someone can really show how any other way works and is easy.
 
I also made a individual intake runner spray bar for a buddy of mine . Just playin around and doin some R&D . I used very very small drill bits to make the holes . The only thing is making sure all the runners get the same amount of methanol .
 

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Think I'll stay with the tried and true Alkycontrol system and up pipe location until someone can really show how any other way works and is easy.
i have pumped over 35 gph on a 109 through the up pipe and at this point i feel the same way as you.
 
Check out this kit that injects alky strait into the turbo
Any feedback from users of this set up?
The air is not compressed yet, the compression takes place in the scroll, the wheel imparts kinetic energy which is then converted to pressure in the scroll. I would figure injecting in the inlet would be more beneficial, because the wheel would break the droplets up to be smaller which would promote better heat transfer along with a slightly longer residence time to promote more complete vaporization. I don't think you would get full vaporization before exiting the scroll, so that you would not gain the full benefit which would be reducing specific volume and allowing more mass flow though the compressor. This would also only be a benefit if you were trying to squeeze every last ounce of flow through the compressor.
 
i have pumped over 35 gph on a 109 through the up pipe and at this point i feel the same way as you.
I have to agree with these guys, why fix what isn't broke? Lots of 9 second car running Julios set up with no problems. I find sometimes I over think and complicate things, this is usually followed by a large pain in my azz. :eek:
 
i have pumped over 35 gph on a 109 through the up pipe and at this point i feel the same way as you.
I have to agree with these guys, why fix what isn't broke? Lots of 9 second car running Julios set up with no problems. I find sometimes I over think and complicate things, this is usually followed by a large pain in my azz. :eek:
My Buick mechanic has a saying, "better is the enemy of good enough."

In the rest of my life, I do not agree with this statement as pushing the envelope helps to make us greater even when there are unknowns. I'm in Sales and I came from an entrepreneurial family so I have no choice but to keep moving forward.

With the TR, however, I agree with my mechanic's statement. Every time I try to improve on "good enough" or "works fine" it usually bites me. Lol.

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