Which converter should I buy?

[buicktom61]

Hello,

after the engine update and my first test drive, I believe that I need another converter.
I now have a restalled D5 with stall around 2400 rpm. The engine was upgraded from nearly stock to 60lbs injectors, G-Body slic, TT chip and a TE-61. You can see the combo I use below.
What I want is a converter for street use. What brand and stall speed should the new one have? Don't hit me, but sometimes I want to tow my small RV-Trailer (around 2900 lbs) to a US Car Meeting here in Germany.

Greetings from Germany
Thomas

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Dusty Bradford is a favorite source for Buick applications. You can contact him thru the board. He is my converter source.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

David Husek is my source for torque converters, transmissions and engines.

 

[buicktom61]

Thanks for your recommendations.
Thomas

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Towing the trailer does make a difference. With the stock converter you have a 12" clutch which has good holding power. To get more stall you have to reduce the size of the converter to a 9.5 or 10". This also reduces the clutch size. It's not a big deal except when your adding an additional 3000# to the load on the converter. I'd suggest a triple disc lock up for this application. It gives you the extra stall you need and will tolerate pulling a trailer.

 

[buicktom61]

Hello Dusty,

Sounds okay for me. What is your recommendation for the converter? Do you need any further information to find the right one for me?
If you want, you can pm me.

Thanks
Thomas

 

[buicktom61]

Hello Dusty,
The converter is more for every day drive. I only will tow the trailer one time a year.
Thomas

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I'll send you a pm.

It's that one time you tow that runs a risk of damaging the lock up clutch.

 

[V6sleeper]

Throw a tow hitch on that yellow 67' in your avitar instead

 

[buicktom61]

That yellow 67 has a hitch. Most of the time I use it for the trailer. But maybe I want to use the GN too.

 

[David Husek]

Hello,

after the engine update and my first test drive, I believe that I need another converter.
I now have a restalled D5 with stall around 2400 rpm. The engine was upgraded from nearly stock to 60lbs injectors, G-Body slic, TT chip and a TE-61. You can see the combo I use below.
What I want is a converter for street use. What brand and stall speed should the new one have? Don't hit me, but sometimes I want to tow my small RV-Trailer (around 2900 lbs) to a US Car Meeting here in Germany.

Greetings from Germany
Thomas

Hi Thomas, I would suggest a billet lockup converter as it will have a billet damper with a wider and much higher quality lock-up clutch lining. The converter itself will have more stall speed, but will drive around similar to the d5 you have now. Using a 3 or 5 disk lock-up is a good choice, but it will incure another $1000+ in billet hard parts plus installation of those parts in Germany. They are very aggressive and break hard parts on lock-up all the time.

Since you only tow once a year, I do not forsee an issue as long as you are aware of the weight you are pulling and only let the clutch lock-up at highway speeds. You also want to install an external cooler with a fan in series with the radiator.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

IMO he doesn't make enough hp to break the input shaft. This isn't about locking at WOT which is the cause of breaking stock input shafts. This is about not allowing the clutch to slip while towing a load. Inagine towing an additional 3000# at 40-50% throttle. If the clutch ever slips he's looking at a very expensive trans rebuild. Buying something up front that will not slip is insurance. Spend an extra $800 now or $2000+ if the clutch ever slips.

I have a lot of Turbo LS trucks who use a single disc 10" billet lock up and pull boats, campers etc...because the multi disc isn't in the budget. I just make sure they fully understand the chance of what can happen if they lock it under the wrong circumstances. They can better control lock up parameters than we can with the Buick.

 

[Ttype6]

I have a lot of Turbo LS trucks who use a single disc 10" billet lock up and pull boats, campers etc.

How many of them have returned to you complaining that their clutch won't lock?

 

[INEEDAGN]

This thread reminds me of
The first gn I ever saw in person. It was at a drag strip being used as a tow vehicle to flat tow a ratty 67 Camaro to the track. Other racers said the guy used a 67 gtx hemi to tow it for years until someone offered him stupid money for it so he bought a gn to replace it. I wish I'd had a camera. Car was damn nice and stock.

I have no valuable input On the converter issue so I'll end the thread hijack

 

[buicktom61]

I understand I have to be carefull driving in OD. But is it possible ? Can I drive in OD if I hold my speed with cruise control around 60 mph?
What brand is the better choice? Billet HF 3021 or PTC 10"? Since a year I am new in the Turbo Technique. I learned a lot about it! I am more specialized in 50's and 60's Buicks.
But transmissions and torque converter are not my field. I need help to make the right decision.
Thomas

 

[Dusty Bradford]

How many of them have returned to you complaining that their clutch won't lock?

None. I don't know how many actually pull a trailer though. I did have one just send his back and swap to a 9.5 NL for an 80e

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I understand I have to be carefull driving in OD. But is it possible ? Can I drive in OD if I hold my speed with cruise control around 60 mph?
What brand is the better choice? Billet HF 3021 or PTC 10"? Since a year I am new in the Turbo Technique. I learned a lot about it! I am more specialized in 50's and 60's Buicks.
But transmissions and torque converter are not my field. I need help to make the right decision.
Thomas

The converter will lock at 45mph in D or OD around 45mph unless your chip calls for something different. As long as you use light throttle while pulling a trailer you won't have issues. I'm not sure what the terrain is like but if your driving up an incline at 50% throttle while pulling a trailer I don't trust a single disc whether it's billet or non billet converter. It really comes down to your driving habits with the trailer. The reason I suggested the multi disc was simply for insurance being your intentions with the trailer and your location.

 

[Ttype6]

The converter will lock at 45mph in D or OD around 45mph unless your chip calls for something different. As long as you use light throttle while pulling a trailer you won't have issues. I'm not sure what the terrain is like but if your driving up an incline at 50% throttle while pulling a trailer I don't trust a single disc whether it's billet or non billet converter. It really comes down to your driving habits with the trailer. The reason I suggested the multi disc was simply for insurance being your intentions with the trailer and your location.

Do you know the total friction surface areas of the 3 disc and the billet?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Do you know the total friction surface areas of the 3 disc and the billet?

I've never figured it up. I usually rate them by the power they will tolerate. I don't want to lock any single disc at WOT but the billet will take a little more abuse than the non billet. I won't lock a standard cover at WOT. A billet can take a very mild upgraded car. I burnt the clutch up in a Precision single disc billet running low 12's. There's a huge gap between a billet single disc and the triple. The billet triple disc can hold 1000+. I dyno' d a twin turbo Big block last week that made 1056 at the tires with a triple disc and we locked it at 60mph.

 

[David Husek]

I understand I have to be carefull driving in OD. But is it possible ? Can I drive in OD if I hold my speed with cruise control around 60 mph?
What brand is the better choice? Billet HF 3021 or PTC 10"? Since a year I am new in the Turbo Technique. I learned a lot about it! I am more specialized in 50's and 60's Buicks.
But transmissions and torque converter are not my field. I need help to make the right decision.
Thomas

Hi Thomas, I suggest when pulling the trailer or anytime you are putting a large load on a 200-4R transmission you keep the transmission in the “D” Range. The turbo tweak chip you are using will lock the converter in 3rd and OD(4th). The converter will never lock below 43 mph. At 60 mph anything below 24% throttle the converter will lock. You will have to go 40% throttle for it to unlock when locked and back to below 24% throttle for it to re-lock. Lock-up is dependent on throttle input related to speed to lock and unlock the converter via a table in the chip. I don't foresee an issue, but just use your best judgment as with any vehicle when towing to not damage the transmission.

As far as your question which converter is a better choice, I can only give you info about my products. I manufacture my converters. I have developed my 3021 and 3521 converter line specifically for the Turbo Buick. My converters have a looser bottom end for turbo spool, tighter top end and under normal driving conditions, they remain tight when cruising or pulling away from a stop. This has been achieved by new technology that has been implemented into the design of my products. These converters are only available thru Turbo Buick Performance.

Below are pictures of a standard lock-up clutch and stock damper. I recommended a billet lock-up with billet damper because a standard converter is not designed for towing and the lock-up will not do well in this application.

Standard Converter lock-up clutch and stock damper


Recommended Billet cover with billet damper (reference larger clutch)
High Torque Thermal engagement carbon clutch material is used on the billet damper and is designed for extreme load applications.


Billet Cover with 258MM stock damper - not recommended