When you are thinking about upgrading...

TurboGN86

Member
i have come across a set of CSII door panels an was woundering what everyone has put in there, im not too familiar with those flat style speakers...
 

grocerygetter

Active Member
the G-body cars are awesome acoustically..for a car. ONce they are well dampened they are a great platform for kick panels or horns. The dash shape is symmetrical on the bottom, the console is low and out of the way. One of the reasons I bought a GN! (I'm a former USACi SQ World Champion so it's in my blood, can't blame me!)
There are guys like the gang at Speakerworks, Richard Clark, Gary Biggs etc that have done great things with Regals. Hopefully I can add some to this forum! I'll trade someone some audio knowledge for some internal engine knowledge!

My best advice when building a system. Start with good stuff...dont' by junk and try to make it work. Also, an EQ is a band aid for bad speaker selection but it is also a humongous tuning aid when fighting reflections in the auto environment and a must for a competition system. Amplifiers, clean (.5% or better, plenty of headroom, decent SN ratio 90 or better is awesome but I've done great things with 85dB ratings, power, good channel separation (80+dB sep. rocks!) power, cosmetics that will FIT in your install, and oh yeah...power. Speakers...you get what you pay for...listen yourself don't go off other peoples opnions.
 

Jarnutt

Youngin'
never start with junk is a good start, but there is no actual way to know whats junk and what actually works, without peoples opinions, if you have never heard it in your car before, it sounds completely different inside of a car from what it sounds like in a room at an audio retailer, so an opinion is your most important stepping stone to finding what you like, unless you want to buy 50 seprate pairs of speakers and try out each one til you find one that sounds good in the car, so if someone owns that particular car, in this case a G body, go to a lowrider show, you are guaranteed to find about 600 regals, 450 cutties, and a jillion monte carlos, all with incredible sound systems, and if you see a GN or a T-Type that has bicycle spokes for rims, or a bass boat paint job, kick him in the dick for me, im not allowed in those places anymore.
 

TurboGN86

Member
sounds like a plan, as for the inter info, depends what u want. a motor is all about its combonation. research is ur best bet. research and this web site, ask around.
 

GregInAtl

Active Member
It kills me how people always over-build everything on thier car BUT the audio & electrical system. I like the fact that people want the good stuff. Its a shame they back-yard install it, w/ an enclosure that isnt air tight, that isnt near specs, run too big of speakers in locations where they must be shoe-horned in, and then run all thier amps w/ a single 4 gauge and a 60 amp fuse.
Speakers need power....more is better in keeping distortion, heat out, and providing head-room.(An over supply of power left to preserve the product via efficency)....Amps need more power...more is better w/ them as well.
**Your car can easily provide it, w/o sacrificing much of anything.** for those that are afraid to do this next step , the difference in speed, is no worse than the weight you already added w/ an enclosure for your subs.
An upgraded alternator, a better battery (Optima, SVR, Odyssey), and a quality stiffening cap...not a $40 el-cheapo....will get 99% of us what we want and need;
More volume than we can actually use, and quality of sound at almost any volume.
After 17 years of building car audio, I know we are doin better than ever before, lets just raise the bar on how installs are done in quality, not flair, and we will be at the level our engines have been for years.
 

8UWITH6

Keepin' The Shiny Side Up
I disagree that our cars have crap speaker locations. The dash speakers, while semi-pointless, can produce some nice front fill. But yes, you really dont get any mids from a 3.5" speaker! In my GN, Im running Rockford Fosgate 3.5" w/ bass blockers. Since I PERSONALLY like more rear fill, the 3.5s are just kinda there for fun, running off of my Fosgate RFX-9220G source unit.

Moving to the rear. Ditch those 4x10s, and get some 6x9s and adapters! Every G-body Ive ever owned Ive converted to 6x9s. Heres where you get some of your mid and most of your "volume". I personally run some older Rockford Fosgate 6x9s and have an old school Punch 100x2 running to them. They LOVE IT! They are 100 watt RMS 200 watt peak speakers, and they just love the Punch 100x2 Amplifier. I started out with a Punch 40ix on them, then moved up to a Punch 60x2, now obviously I have settled on the 100x2 amp. Each time I upgraded amps/power to the 6x9s, they got a little louder, and a little clearer. I guess you could say I perfectly matched what the speakers liked. They absolutely scream and I love it, I have my source unit faded a little more towards the rear, thats just how I like it.

Moving to the sub. Ive had many different configurations of subs in my G-bodies over the years. 2 12s in a prefab box on the trunk floor, 3 10s under the rear deck, etc. In my GN I figured I would want all of my equipment up and out of the way, so I designed an enclosure and amp racks under the rear deck. I designed a sealed enclosure (my preference) that was centered between the 6x9s facing rearwards for a 12" sub. The enclosure is 1.27 cuft, which isnt bad for most 12s. Ive had a few different 12s and many different amps in the car. 1st was a JL Audio 12w6 on my Punch 200ix. Sounded okay, but wasnt what I liked. Upgraded to a Rockford Fosgate Punch HX2 12", and hated it. I read later than they work better in vented enclosures, so I sold it. I have settled on something finally. After 2 years of playing around, I think I have the combo I LIKE! Yes, I LIKE, I dont care if you like it, because somebody else said above, its what your ears like. I am running a Rockford Fosgate Power T1 12" sub, in the same sealed enclosure, with the legendary Rockford Fosgate Punch 500m amplifier. The sub is 600 watts RMS, 1200 peak. It sounds awesome. Nice tight punchy bass, but can hit fairly low too. All my gains are set up with a multi-meter, based on head unit pre-out voltages, and of course, how much power the amp is suppost to produce at full unclipped volume. It pounds with the best of them for a single sub system, but I feel it is pretty well balance for what I like. Eventually Id like to add some CSII panels and do some components for more mid bass, but what I have now makes me very happy.

For more info on this install, you guys feel free to stop by my sounddomain site. I need to update it, but you get the idea........ Hope this helps!

www.sounddomain.com/id/8uwith6
 

Jarnutt

Youngin'
i keep it simple since i dont drive my buick everyday. Single 10" sealed, rockford 4X10's rear, rockford 3.5's front, alpine head unit. sounds good, and makes me happy, i could give a damn if the guy next to me at the stop light can hear it or not, its MY music, so I am enjoying it.
 

GNTurbo6

Asian guy in redneck car
Consider running a few extra ground wires. I haven't touched the audio in my GN but in my Camry I ran an 0/1 gauge ground wire from my chassis to the battery and it helped out quite a bit. Also ran a few 4 gauge ground wires, one from the engine block and one from the tranny, both went to the same ground point on the chassis as the new battery ground.
 

PalmerBS

New Member
Ok, i'm going to ask a stupid question....

I have an 87 GN w/ the concert sound (that someone did some cutting on)

Are the door speakers 4 inch or 5.25.

I just ordered an Alpine head unit and Alpine 4 inch component system so I sure as hell hope they're 4.

Hah! Either way, i'll deal with it.

Also, is there any way to just replace the lower part of the door, specifically the speaker casing that sticks out. Mine seems to have had a small fit issue that someone solved with a sawsall!

Thanks for any help.
 

Jarnutt

Youngin'
how bad is the cutting on the doors? ive been able to squeeze a kenwood Excelon 6.5" in the doors no problem since the magnet is so small, some of the the customers i would have would ask for speakers that just plain didn't fit. if the baffle that the speaker SHOULD fit in is cut out too much then your speaker grill wont fit for crap anymore. as for the 4 inch components, you can make a mounting plate from either some ABS plastic or some sheet metal and dynamat so take up any slack that may be missing. just make sure that there are no holes going through your door around the edges of the speaker. for the best possible sound, you need to isolate the sound wave in front of the speaker away from the back of the speaker. DYNAMAT IS YOUR FRIEND. you can find CS door panels all over the place if you look hard enough.
 

"Turbo-T"

V6 on steroids
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the best bang for your buck when upgrading the factory stereo system is a speaker replacement.

Even with a stock head unit (in dash radio), replacing the stock factory speakers can make a night and day difference.

I have installed aftermarket stereos without replacing the stock speakers and it still sounds worse than a stock radio withh aftermarket speakers.

I will also point out, when replacing stereo components, use good quality stuff, like Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Kicker, JL Audio, etc.

Stuff like Audiovox, Kraco, Sparkomatic, Roadmaster...and even the Chineese/Taiwan knock off brands sold in oriental-ran flea market booths like Kenford and Rockwood....stay away from.

Use good sized power cable when running an amp. Never use the car's factory wiring. And make 110% sure all of your grounds are clean and secure.
 
I worked as a pro installer for a while in the mid 90's and fell in love with the GN when I heard Richard Clark's world beater sound system.
In fact I'm confident that if anyone heard it today, they would still agree it's the best of the best of the best.

I've built dozens of competition vehicles that have won, and specialized in sound quality and have a few pointers that I could give to anyone that wanted to make a GN sound good.

My formula for the car is simple, and i"ve seen it work too many times not to believe in it.

1. less = more.
You only really need 5 speakers total, and that's it. A pair of tweeters, a pair of mid bass drivers, and 1 sub-woofer (as the sub-frequencies are Mono).

2. No treble behind your head.
Placing tweeters in the rear deck will distort the stereo image in the front of the car and make it impossible to stage well.

3. Place the tweets (in the front) as far away from your head as possible.
HINT: This AINT going to be in the dash. The kick panels are the way to go here.

4. The bass needs to be in as efficient of a design as possible, and for the money it's hard to beat a 10" in a well designed bandpass enclosure.

I've alreay planned my system down to the T pretty much, and will be happy to post some pics of the install when the weather warms up and I have more daylight to work with outside.
 
3.5" in the dash.
5.25" in the doors.
4x10's in the rears.

I'd recommend keeping the full-range rear-deck setup and upgrading to 6x9 mid/woofer that does not have a tweeter as you only want the treble in-front of your face for stereo imaging.

Car Selector
 
I've never, ever ever ever ever ever, put speakers anywhere in the dash except for center channels on some rare cars that had room and didnt stage well.

So... what I'm saying is, I really don't know w/out looking.
:)

I would trust crutchfields advice, not saying noting else fits... but as far as what they stock, it may only be one.
 

sickless

New Member
agreed

i gotta agree, unless your really going to put forth the work of hacking your car apart then installing the speakers and cleaning it up then go for it otherwise it's ill advised find a ceiling or support source for your 3.5 or even the door.

Now i do take some of this back because i desinctly remember a 3.5 speaker haveing a self braketing mount that fit and locked the speaker anywhere it could be installed or there was room to make and place the cutout for the speaker.

also crutchfeild has live support during the day
 

SilverSleeper

Senior Member
What Crutchfield looks at, one of the primary problems with some 3.5"s, is the tweeter sticks up. (Tweeter protrusion measurement). If you mounted a 3.5 in the stock location, the dash panel is nearly level. Anything sticking up higher than the top of the speaker surrounds would hit the dash panel and require alterations. So, they might fit, but hit the dash panel. So Crutchfield excludes them, since they wont clear at the top.
Basically, look for a 3.5 that has a cone tweeter in the middle. Any 2 way with a good tweeter sticks up too far. Back in the day, I had Polks in my dash with no issues, (but they were dual cone). I also had Boston Acoustics in there as well, and they would barely clear.
 

newtownhood

Car Audio and Electronics guy.
It sucks that stupid car audio manufactures make all the modern 3.5 2 ways with protruding tweeters for some reason...like the woofer is actually going to have bass extension or something. I agree that CSII setup with a nice component set is probably ideal. The qlogic kicks are great for sound, but what happens to your ebrake? The rear speakers are terrible for SQ since the glass is right there. You def want a 2 way speaker at the most. 3 and 4 way speakers never sound good anyway. You can stick with 4x10's if you're running a separate sub. I never understood people putting ginormous sound systems in performance cars. Stereo equipment is heavy! 4 subs, 10 speakers, a box, amps...it's just silly if you're trying to go fast. Let's not forget the cars are "collector's items" so before you destroy a perfectly good set of original plastic door panels, or dash panels, dash board think to yourself "am I keeping this car forever?". I run all "oldschool" equipment in my cars since all the new stuff is crap. New stuff by PPI, Soundstream, MB Quart and Pioneer is garbage. There is no warmth to the equipment. It's all just Peak Power nonsense and specs that account for sound as plastic as Kim Kardashian's nose. You can't go wrong with an amplified Bazooka bass tube for quick, removable bass. The 8-inch 250 watt model will fit right under the rear shelf without issue and provide great bass unless you're trying to pretend you're in night at the roxbury...which in that case, shouldn't you be driving something more baller than a buick? I've been in the car audio business for 20 years and I can't tell you how many people with classic cars that I refused to hack their car. When they give me free reign to make their cars look OEM, but still sound great with quality equipment, they always thank me. "You want me to cut the dash of your '57 Chevy Belair with the factory AM, just so you can have a motorized TV screen? Um, no." Does that sound pretentious? Yes. Have I lost business that way? Yes. I still get a good laugh about all the TR dash panels my dad ruined in the 80's when he installed the Mirage/Code-Alarm keypad alarm systems. But then again, how many cars were saved by him in the process? And who thought they would be collector cars? :)

p.s. Believe it or not, the 3.5 inch speakers that come in the Chryslers with Boston Acoustics sound system aren't bad. They're actually run as mid/tweeters in the systems even though they're not "tweeters". Then again, Bose home audio systems never had an actual tweeter either and they were always highly regarded. I have one of the speakers handy I think the part number is P05059068AB if anybody would like to look one up. I'd imagine you'd want to run a bass blocker of at least 200hz considering the factory amp has a built in crossover.
 
It sucks that stupid car audio manufactures make all the modern 3.5 2 ways with protruding tweeters for some reason...like the woofer is actually going to have bass extension or something. I agree that CSII setup with a nice component set is probably ideal. The qlogic kicks are great for sound, but what happens to your ebrake? The rear speakers are terrible for SQ since the glass is right there. You def want a 2 way speaker at the most. 3 and 4 way speakers never sound good anyway. You can stick with 4x10's if you're running a separate sub. I never understood people putting ginormous sound systems in performance cars. Stereo equipment is heavy! 4 subs, 10 speakers, a box, amps...it's just silly if you're trying to go fast. Let's not forget the cars are "collector's items" so before you destroy a perfectly good set of original plastic door panels, or dash panels, dash board think to yourself "am I keeping this car forever?". I run all "oldschool" equipment in my cars since all the new stuff is crap. New stuff by PPI, Soundstream, MB Quart and Pioneer is garbage. There is no warmth to the equipment. It's all just Peak Power nonsense and specs that account for sound as plastic as Kim Kardashian's nose. You can't go wrong with an amplified Bazooka bass tube for quick, removable bass. The 8-inch 250 watt model will fit right under the rear shelf without issue and provide great bass unless you're trying to pretend you're in night at the roxbury...which in that case, shouldn't you be driving something more baller than a buick? I've been in the car audio business for 20 years and I can't tell you how many people with classic cars that I refused to hack their car. When they give me free reign to make their cars look OEM, but still sound great with quality equipment, they always thank me. "You want me to cut the dash of your '57 Chevy Belair with the factory AM, just so you can have a motorized TV screen? Um, no." Does that sound pretentious? Yes. Have I lost business that way? Yes. I still get a good laugh about all the TR dash panels my dad ruined in the 80's when he installed the Mirage/Code-Alarm keypad alarm systems. But then again, how many cars were saved by him in the process? And who thought they would be collector cars? :)

p.s. Believe it or not, the 3.5 inch speakers that come in the Chryslers with Boston Acoustics sound system aren't bad. They're actually run as mid/tweeters in the systems even though they're not "tweeters". Then again, Bose home audio systems never had an actual tweeter either and they were always highly regarded. I have one of the speakers handy I think the part number is P05059068AB if anybody would like to look one up. I'd imagine you'd want to run a bass blocker of at least 200hz considering the factory amp has a built in crossover.

Couple of quick points here based on your rant...
  • You can NOT get a stereo image from the dash because of the path length differences.
  • I agree the SAS tube is good for bass, but you cant get decent bass from the 8" on the shelf, you need a 10" firing rearward in the spare tire well.
  • putting rear-deck speakers in a G-body is not needed, in fact I'd say it ruins the sound terribly. It will destroy the stereo image even worse than the front dash speakers. You only have 2 ears, why do people think they need 4 speakers in a car.
  • Components are the best way to go and you want to minimalize the path-lenght differences, that's why wavegiudes (like in my car) are so popular in these things.
  • I didn't hack my car apart and can put it back to stock appearance. And with my EQ, amp, horns, and subwoofer box I wager I only gained a net of about 32 lbs.
  • Car stereo components are far better today than they ever were in the past, they run cooler, are less expensive, and less noisy, and are smaller. Pioneer is the leading head-unit in sound-offs today, check out the DEX-P99RS http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Stage4/CD-Players/DEX-P99RS
Here's my install if you want to see a good-sounding G-body that wasnt hacked apart, only using 5 speakers and 1 amp and wasnt that much of an expense contrary to what many think when they see it.. it's just know how.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...albums-1987-buick-grand-national-install.html
 
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