What heads to run on SII block for 10.0 street car?

Two T

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Hello,
I'm looking for advice. I am getting back into my TurboBuick cars, and have a few choices of heads available to run on my 267ci SII block.
1. Ported SII heads and intake that I already have. Issue is that I think the heater core and firewall need to be modified to fit SII headed engine in there, which I'm not going to do. Engine has SII pistons and cam in it.
2. New ported Champion aluminum or iron heads and some type of intake to fit. Will need pistons and cam.
3. Used M&A heads and intake that I can buy. Not sure of the series, but I believe they are later series and do not have porosity problems. Not sure how they stack up against Champions, or worth the risk. But, will be same price in the end as I have to buy the regular engine they are on and I don't need it. Will need pistons and cam.
Turbo will be LE-62-1 or 63-1 to start with, I have both. Maybe change to larger if needed for goal. Goal is 10.0 or so on street trim.
Thanks for looking.
Two T
 

434nova

Active Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Your gonna want to run a aluminum head to take advantage of the 14 head bolts. For 10.0s I would just run a champion aluminum head. The stage heads are gonna require custom headers. It’s my understanding that some of the ma heads have been known to have cracking issues.
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
On or off center? If on-center you will have a lot of other factors to consider most of which it is difficult to find an on-center intake for production style heads.

For a 10.0-9 sec build I would use what ever 14-bolt alum head you can find in decent shape. M&A heads can be decent but the newer Champions or TAs are much better. Aftermarket alum heads can be hard to find these days too.

Few pics of my S2 249" 10.0 street build
 

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Two T

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Hello Guys,
Thank you for the responses. So, Champion 14 bolt heads it is. I can't recall if it is an on or off center block, will have to look at it in storage. Some questions:
1. For the Champion or TA heads, is there an availability issue? I haven't been in the turbo world for a bit, so not sure of what's been happening lately. When I find a set, do I want them ported? Prefer to run as little boost as possible. I see on some vendor sites Champ on and off center intakes being advertised. If I find good used, should I buy?
2. Cam shaft, any suggestions?
3. Injectors?
4. Pistons - Can I use the SII pistons in there for the Champ or TA heads? Gut feeling says no due to valve reliefs.
Thanks again for the advice, looking forward to getting it all together. Car was set up with 9" rear, FMIC, etc to take the SII , just never finished it.
Best regards.
Two T
PS Great pics turbobuick. Hope to be there soon.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Hello,
I'm looking for advice. I am getting back into my TurboBuick cars, and have a few choices of heads available to run on my 267ci SII block.
1. Ported SII heads and intake that I already have. Issue is that I think the heater core and firewall need to be modified to fit SII headed engine in there, which I'm not going to do. Engine has SII pistons and cam in it.
2. New ported Champion aluminum or iron heads and some type of intake to fit. Will need pistons and cam.
3. Used M&A heads and intake that I can buy. Not sure of the series, but I believe they are later series and do not have porosity problems. Not sure how they stack up against Champions, or worth the risk. But, will be same price in the end as I have to buy the regular engine they are on and I don't need it. Will need pistons and cam.
Turbo will be LE-62-1 or 63-1 to start with, I have both. Maybe change to larger if needed for goal. Goal is 10.0 or so on street trim.
Thanks for looking.
Two T
I think you should seriously consider wait time on the things you will need to buy if you dont use the parts you already have.although I'm not a fan of s2 heads you have then already as well as most things needed.the bb and triple bb turbos spool incredibly,you should lose the 63 and get a modern turbo.piston, cam, heads,just to name some things you will need are far out.getting headers made are some money but you have all the parts.my friend has s2 cars with air and heat in them.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Inmo you should call ta and get a timetable,I highly recommended not dealing with champion if you want heads in the near future,getting heads off a vendor may be easier if they have them on the shelf.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
I can tell you now guys are praying to get there rides rolling for next season at this point.
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Hello Guys,
Thank you for the responses. So, Champion 14 bolt heads it is. I can't recall if it is an on or off center block, will have to look at it in storage. Some questions:
1. For the Champion or TA heads, is there an availability issue? I haven't been in the turbo world for a bit, so not sure of what's been happening lately. When I find a set, do I want them ported? Prefer to run as little boost as possible. I see on some vendor sites Champ on and off center intakes being advertised. If I find good used, should I buy?
Yes both are difficult to get right now. Not sure what hold up is with TA but they have been behind for awhile. Ever since Tom at Champion passed away it has been difficult to get anything from the new owners. Throw in Covid issues and its a mess and anyones guess when shit will start showing up again. Intakes are unobtanium, Champion is not producing them and TA is gearing up to do them and even had a casting at BG this year but who knows when they will show up. My buddy paid $1500 for a Champion intake at BG it was new but still second hand.

IME the TA head is a far better head than Champion BUT they will cost more and take more work out of the box than the Champion. The GN1 with a CNC race port job is nice head and works really well on a 10.0 motor you probably wouldn't see any difference. I would buy whatever you can get your hands on first. I agere with Mr Spool call a vendor first, Bison and Full throttle do a lot with them I believe Cotton does too I would use one of them instead of dealing directly with Champion.

2. Cam shaft, any suggestions?
3. Injectors?

IMO you have 2 choices for cams billet or cast roller. Billets are a little more difficult to find and cost more and is what I run in my stuff as I am not familiar with the new cast rollers but from what I hear they work well. Several vendors who can help you with that. Injectors depends on the fuel you decide to use.
4. Pistons - Can I use the SII pistons in there for the Champ or TA heads? Gut feeling says no due to valve reliefs.
Yes the S2 pistosn will likely still work with production heads. I would check it but it usually isnt an issue. I would be sure they are a turbo piston and not a NA piston. For what it costs and the motor your building I agree with Mr Spool I would get a set of new pistons.

Thanks again for the advice, looking forward to getting it all together. Car was set up with 9" rear, FMIC, etc to take the SII , just never finished it.
Best regards.
Two T
PS Great pics turbobuick. Hope to be there soon.

Is your block on or off center? I know people have run S2 heads with AC and heat but it is not easy and you will a really difficult time changing plugs. There is a lot more fab work in putting a S2 head on the car. If you have an on-center block though I would consider it just not with the AC box in the car lol!

Thanks here is another pic for you, this is my GN with a S2 4.1 oncenter with Champion heads and GN1 intake. The other motor I posted is in my T-type and is an off center Stage 2 3.8 wtih GN1 heads and stock intake, oil pump accessories etc.
 

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chasmat2316

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Yes both are difficult to get right now. Not sure what hold up is with TA but they have been behind for awhile. Ever since Tom at Champion passed away it has been difficult to get anything from the new owners. Throw in Covid issues and its a mess and anyones guess when shit will start showing up again. Intakes are unobtanium, Champion is not producing them and TA is gearing up to do them and even had a casting at BG this year but who knows when they will show up. My buddy paid $1500 for a Champion intake at BG it was new but still second hand.

IME the TA head is a far better head than Champion BUT they will cost more and take more work out of the box than the Champion. The GN1 with a CNC race port job is nice head and works really well on a 10.0 motor you probably wouldn't see any difference. I would buy whatever you can get your hands on first. I agere with Mr Spool call a vendor first, Bison and Full throttle do a lot with them I believe Cotton does too I would use one of them instead of dealing directly with Champion.



IMO you have 2 choices for cams billet or cast roller. Billets are a little more difficult to find and cost more and is what I run in my stuff as I am not familiar with the new cast rollers but from what I hear they work well. Several vendors who can help you with that. Injectors depends on the fuel you decide to use.

Yes the S2 pistosn will likely still work with production heads. I would check it but it usually isnt an issue. I would be sure they are a turbo piston and not a NA piston. For what it costs and the motor your building I agree with Mr Spool I would get a set of new pistons.



Is your block on or off center? I know people have run S2 heads with AC and heat but it is not easy and you will a really difficult time changing plugs. There is a lot more fab work in putting a S2 head on the car. If you have an on-center block though I would consider it just not with the AC box in the car lol!

Thanks here is another pic for you, this is my GN with a S2 4.1 oncenter with Champion heads and GN1 intake. The other motor I posted is in my T-type and is an off center Stage 2 3.8 wtih GN1 heads and stock intake, oil pump accessories etc.
can I ask what size turbo that is?
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
The GN has a 88mm turbo on it. I just looked and the 1st pic is a much older one the second is current from this year. The first is with a H cover cast wheel 4788 the second is a large housing billet wheel 4788. That car has not seen light of day since 2009 when last raced. It is undergoing a major update/overhaul this winter and TBH I haven't completely decided what I want to do with it yet. It was running really low 8s at mid 170s back then with Champion heads. The motor and heads in it now have never been raced and were new in 2010. It was the best motor I built for the car and had the best of what you could get at the time including the heads which are custom raised runner heads Tom did for me.
 

Two T

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Thank you for all the info Nova, Mr Spool, and Chris,
I'll start looking for parts. Good to be back in the ring, and looking forward to seeing some of you at upcoming events.
Best regards,
Two T
 

2QUICK2B6

Black Car Fever
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Dan Strezo did an awsome job on my 14 bolt gn1 heads they were flowed aginst all the top name CNc heads on Richard Clark’s flow bench. Fitted them with t&d’s .. lil stock long block with shitty 9x11 converter slipping went 10.97. Can’t wait to see what it will run with these heads 212/212 cam ptc 17 blade converter now. 3,700lb with me in it before the aluminum heads
 

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Two T

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Hi Guys,
I took some pictures of my SII engine. Block casting is 4X151981. I'm not sure if on-center or off, could use some help. It has four bolts on center two mains. Looks like a lot of work went into this engine. This was a TurboBuick racer's back-up engine, and I think should do okay for my goal of 10.0. Thanks for looking.
Best regards.
Two T
 

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chasmat2316

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
The GN has a 88mm turbo on it. I just looked and the 1st pic is a much older one the second is current from this year. The first is with a H cover cast wheel 4788 the second is a large housing billet wheel 4788. That car has not seen light of day since 2009 when last raced. It is undergoing a major update/overhaul this winter and TBH I haven't completely decided what I want to do with it yet. It was running really low 8s at mid 170s back then with Champion heads. The motor and heads in it now have never been raced and were new in 2010. It was the best motor I built for the car and had the best of what you could get at the time including the heads which are custom raised runner heads Tom did for me.
i would love to see more engine bay pics if you have them? especially turbo mounting of that sledge hammer of a turbo
 

2QUICK2B6

Black Car Fever
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Hello,
I'm looking for advice. I am getting back into my TurboBuick cars, and have a few choices of heads available to run on my 267ci SII block.
1. Ported SII heads and intake that I already have. Issue is that I think the heater core and firewall need to be modified to fit SII headed engine in there, which I'm not going to do. Engine has SII pistons and cam in it.
2. New ported Champion aluminum or iron heads and some type of intake to fit. Will need pistons and cam.
3. Used M&A heads and intake that I can buy. Not sure of the series, but I believe they are later series and do not have porosity problems. Not sure how they stack up against Champions, or worth the risk. But, will be same price in the end as I have to buy the regular engine they are on and I don't need it. Will need pistons and cam.
Turbo will be LE-62-1 or 63-1 to start with, I have both. Maybe change to larger if needed for goal. Goal is 10.0 or so on street trim.
Thanks for looking.
Two T
What are those turbos in mm ?
 

750H.P.V6

Brutal 6 Racing
Joined
Sep 4, 2001
Hi Guys,
I took some pictures of my SII engine. Block casting is 4X151981. I'm not sure if on-center or off, could use some help. It has four bolts on center two mains. Looks like a lot of work went into this engine. This was a TurboBuick racer's back-up engine, and I think should do okay for my goal of 10.0. Thanks for looking.
Best regards.
Two T
I used to have one with the same casting #, it should be an On center block. Can you post a few more pics of the bottom end?

Thanks

Neal
 
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