Upgrading turbo on hotair setup past ta33

[6SENSE]

Originaly posted by Lee Thompson:

Send him your stock 87 along with a cone adapter (I have an extra). He will weld the adapter to the 87 compressor housing so you only use 1 o-ring. Ask for a 66mm compressor wheel --a Q trim exhaust wheel with a Precision 85 exhaust housing.

Well, I finally got around to calling Limit Engineering and got some bad news. There is some sort of backing plate that is used to do this conversion? Well it is no longer available, the company that made it went out of business. According to what I was just told on the phone the options for a turbo upgrade are next to nill after the ta33. Yes you can fit the next bigger comp wheel in the 33 (60 I think) but what I was told was that it would only be about a 40hp increase. He beat me to saying that it wasnt enough bang for the buck ($450-$500 for 40hp ). He said the ones (66's) that they did in the past that are out there are the last ones.

Guess I'll get back to working with what Ive got. I did ask him if there was a "sweet spot" on the ta33 and he said something about (if running a intercooler or alcohol injection), being able to tune to run up to 28psi. If anyone has any suggestions as to what to focus on to get my mph going up please let me know (lately its been closer to 100). I plan on getting my other block together sometime in the not too distant future, and putting all my stuff back on it. Its .030 over bore/forged pistons and a 204/214 cam (was thinking about getting center billet main caps also). Dont know if with the porting (heads and intake) if adding the larger cam into the mix will give me much of a hp increase or not.

 

[6SENSE]

You guys think that the head port work/open plenum intake is hurting more than it is helping on my setup with the stock cam? Say that the turbo IS moving the air well enough through the intake for my combo but not out the heads because of the small duration cam. Does that sound like a possibility?

 

[boostmaster]

backing plate

6Sense hate to high jack your thread but can you give us a little more clarification on this backing plate, maybe one can be fabricated some how. Anyone out there with any pic's of this with a modified Limit Turbo would be appreciated.

 

[UWE LEHMANN]

Backing Plate

Contact Lee Thompson
He and i spoke about two months ago about this and he told me that he had sold the remainders to John Graig . So i asked Lee what if John Craig doesnt have any more ? Lee repleid saying he could get some more maid . you need to contact Lee in reguards to pricing
Good luck
Uwe

 

[6SENSE]

Thanks Uwe. I was thinking it doesnt make any sense for the thing to just be irreplaceable. Im surprised that Limit cant fab it. I guess there isnt that much of a demand for it, so I would understand if that was there reason. I didnt speak to John himself this time. Dont remember for sure but I think the guys name was Rod? Not possitive though.
I will try to contact Leeo.

 

[6SENSE]

By the way Uwe, how does your car run performance wise with the ta33?

 

[turbo6x2]

Re: Backing Plate

Originally posted by UWE LEHMANN
Contact Lee Thompson
He and i spoke about two months ago about this and he told me that he had sold the remainders to John Graig . So i asked Lee what if John Craig doesnt have any more ? Lee repleid saying he could get some more maid . you need to contact Lee in reguards to pricing
Good luck
Uwe

This isnt' the same thing guys. I believe what he's referring to is we need a carbon seal. That was an adapter plate so you could adapt the turbo to our intakes.

 

[turbo6x2]

I have the adapter plates (we had some fabricated from the last one Lee had) that Lee had designed, so we could attach the turbo to our intake set ups. Reason why I know this is I'm going through the same thing. This is something different and we are trying to find a local shop to build it and will keep you posted. Also unless you talk To John you're not getting all the facts either. Try emailing him instead. He responds to that. His email address is johncraig@limitengineering.com I will keep you posted on my results on trying to locate this backplate.

 

[6SENSE]

Re: Re: Backing Plate

Originally posted by turbo6x2
This isnt' the same thing guys. I believe what he's referring to is we need a carbon seal. That was an adapter plate so you could adapt the turbo to our intakes.

Yes Jamie thats it, the carbon seal deal.
Leeo just confirmed that he never had any backing plates. What he did say he had was some adaptor plates to straighten up the TB.
I assume these are the adaptor plates that you have J&K? Is this to allow a te series to work on our cars or......? I have had a couple offers on turbos recently for really good prices (from projects that never materialized) but just dont know if they will work with the hotair setup (plus I believe they are probably te series).
I will try emailing John.

Thanks

 

[boostmaster]

adapter

It's the adapter to straighten the throttle body when you convert to an 86-87 set up.

 

[turbo6x2]

Yeah that's the adapter plate I have. How it was explained to me( regarding the back plate carbon seal) is for the hot air to run the 86-87 turbo this back plate is what goes between the two halves of the turbo. I'm working on trying to get this fabricated so we can all benefit. I find it hard to believe only one company ever made this. If anyone else has a plan let me know. I too would like the option to upgrade other then the stock housing. Must not have been too many out there to begin with, I can't imagine everyone jumped on this from the hot air world. Thanks!

 

[6SENSE]

Thanks guys and gal
Ive got a email into John Craig, I'll let you know what he says.

I find it hard to believe only one company ever made this

Yeah, me too. furthermore Im surprised that this is a big a deal for a company that builds turbochargers to not just make it/have it made somewhere else or have a line on another source. Then again I guess it just keeps coming back to demand. How many other vehicle setups would need this and out of the already small group of us hotair buick folks look at how few are even worried about it. My brother (has a 87TLtd) did tell me today that he thought he remembered seeing carbon seals in the Turbonetics catalog.
Oh well, something will materialize. Until then I will just get back to working with what I have. turbo6x2, what cam did you finally wind up with? I know you started with the 206/206. I think Im going to try to get my other block going so I can swap out this stock block (should be good for a few horses). If its still good I guess I will just keep the 204/214 thats in it.

Also anyone know what the ta33 is supposed to be capable of? Low 12's maybe? I thought I read when doing a search that someone was running high 11's with one (??).

Justin

 

[6SENSE]

Re: adapter

Originally posted by boostmaster
It's the adapter to straighten the throttle body when you convert to an 86-87 set up.

Maybe Im moving a little slow right now. Im not exactly getting it (plus what the heck is Lee doing with adaptors to make a 86/87 setup ).
You cant be talking about a literal 86/87 conversion, sooo are you refering to when you relocate the 84/85 tb when adding an intercooler (or something along those lines)?

Also, was just thinking. This carbon seal plate; Id like to know why exactly is it necessary for our setup? Does it have something to do with the turbo being after the TB? And if so, didnt some just reclock and use a 86/87 style turbo on a stock hotair configuration (or did they)?

Thanks, this should prove to be some good hotair info.

 

[Lee Thompson]

plate

On an 87 compressor housing the 2 studs that you will use to bolt the throttle up are clocked different than an 85. Therefore the need for an adapter plate to straighten up the throttle body.

 

[UWE LEHMANN]

Originally posted by 6SENSE
By the way Uwe, how does your car run performance wise with the ta33?

I will let you know ,I am still in repair process (NO TIME)
Thanx Uwe

 

[turbo6x2]

this is what john told me---


The backplate is not the only problem. The carbon seal assembly,
thrust collar and thrust spacer are also not available. It would be
cheaper to move your throttle body than to manufacture all these
parts.


I would think someone can make a turbo for our set up that's bigger then a stupid stocker stuffed or ta33. I hate to think our options are zero and we don't account for anything per say cause we chose to be different. I guess Lee is the only one who gets to go bigger at this point. This is a complete disappointment. There is less and less support for the hot airs all the time. I realize these are older cars but we should at least have a couple vendors who would like to step up. I'm checking locally with some turbo builders in this area. Let me know if anyone comes up with anything else. I'm sure not feeling the LOVE these days.

 

[turbo6x2]

[ turbo6x2, what cam did you finally wind up with? I know you started with the 206/206. I think Im

Justin Let me look on the card again, I know I should know this off the top off my head but we just upgraded Karl's and I confuse the combo's I need to write it down. Old age sucks... LOL The Ta 33 is good to high elevens depending on the tune and chip combo per say...

 

[6SENSE]

On an 87 compressor housing the 2 studs that you will use to bolt the throttle up are clocked different than an 85. Therefore the need for an adapter plate to straighten up the throttle body.

Ahh, I get it. Cant believe I didnt think of that.....like I said I was moving a little slow Thanks Lee

I will let you know ,I am still in repair process (NO TIME)

I understand Uwe.

I think we all understand the frustration Jamie. Its things like this that make me see why some dissappear from this forum and convert there setup to 86/87. Should be especially difficult for someone like me (I should get a sticker.. or something) who has had a complete 87 motor sitting on a engine stand for about 3years! Then again, I have one thing if nothing else making me keep trying.... Im stubborn Plus I like being different, and the fact that Im the only one here racing a hotair car, I would feel too much like a failure if I gave up now. For now Im shooting for low 12s, I think there will be some jaw dropping. Heck still havent used any race gas or slicks (very stubborn).
Its a shame that you always hear how far a TR can go with a stock cam, but I dont think that applies to hotair cars.....not when you cant just throw a bigger turbo on there like 86/87 I guess Ive got to go in the motor to look for some extra horses........I just realized how spoiled we are, thats what every other brandx racer has to do isnt it, he he

 

[turbo6x2]

I was just hoping John could have been more helpful. I know when I bought the turbo we h ave now it was the second to the last one Lee had at the time (4 years ago)I was hoping he could do something past this, but now he's not answering email either... I don't know what that means. It really bites no one makes a turbo for our set up... beyond the ta33

 

[racemybuick]

hey all...I forgot who did this just a few months ago...I changed my email, so I lost the original sender info, but a kid in central region told me he reclocked the compressor, milled it for a new adapter, and made his own plate, plus he bored out his TB, all in his fathers shop. I gotta do a search tonight in the forums, this was only like 4 or 5 months ago. other than that, I cant think of anyone who can really help us out. I have no machining experience at all. But I want a TA54 + in my car so bad I can taste it. Oh well...we'll all keep trying!

Those 10's are only a modification away...right???

John