Turbo recommendations??

[turbov6joe]

I've been out of the turbo Buick scene for a while and recently got another 86. The car came with a TE49A with a Garrett .63 housing. Here in the near future I'm going to upgrade to a more modern efficient ball bearing quick spool turbo, and would like opinions of what might be a good street/strip turbo for my combo. The motor is a full forged/billet .010" over rotating assembly with 80s, big pump, FAST, FMIC, 70mm TB & plenum, Hughes 3800 10" non lock converter and built tranny. Around the same time replace the turbo, I'm also replacing the converter to a tighter unit. The car will mostly see street driving with an occasional trip to the track and maybe a light to light race here and there. I'm wanting the turbo to spool quickly and pull hard to redline. Any help with be greatly appreciated!!

 

[V6sleeper]

T-netics 64mm bb, call Dave Husek for a 9.5" 3021

 

[Jerryl]

My opinion is:
If on 93 pump (??), keep the TA49.
If adding octane/alky/E85, 6265 with 9.5 PTC NLU

My advice is:
Contact Bison to spec a turbo AND converter. That way it all matches to the heads/cam/injectors/octane.

 

[T- Type Tim]

I’ve been having an interesting time with turbonetics trying to get a new turbo myself .... I think mr Cotton will get it done in the end

 

[RUQWKNF]

From the looks of it, you have the making of an easy mid to low 10 second setup.
If you want to run straight 93 pump gas and keep the boost below 22psi, I would suggest either one of Bisons' 6265's or a PTE 6266 Gen 2 CEA. Both in ball bearing with .63 A/R housings for the quickest spool up possible and a ported shroud compressor cover. If you go with alky and 93 pump gas and aren't afraid of boost, then either Bison's 6765 or a Precision's PT6766 CEA. Both with ball bearing and the .63 A/R housing. Either go with one of Dave Husek's converters, or a PTC 9.5" NLU converter from Dusty to match the combo and what ever turbo you go with. Don't be afraid of the 6765 or PT6766 CEA with your combo.

I can tell you from the results with my car, it is very street friendly and a real blast to drive. My current setup is a stock bottom end, stock cam with ported heads and intake, PTE 70mm upper plenum, Accufub 70mm t-body and RJC ADPP power plate, single Walbro 255lph pump, hot wired, adjustable fp regulator, 80's with a TT chip, LS1 MAF and Translator, Razor's single nozzle alky, RJC FM IC, 3" full exhaust, a journal bearing PT6766 billet CEA with a .63 A/R turbine housing and a 3500 stall 9.5" l/u converter. The spool up is fast during normal driving. Foot braking is very easy as well, as it's very race able. If that makes sense? I can tell you, on 25psi with 93 pump gas and alky, it's flying for a full weight streetcar. I am hoping to get it to the track soon. No matter which route you go, you must have a ported shroud S (4" inlet, 2.5" outlet) or H (4" inlet, 3" outlet) size compressor cover if you plan to drive it a lot. The ported shroud will help protect the chra from premature wear under part throttle driving conditions, as it is an anti surge feature that is cast / machined into the compressor cover. Trust me, you gotta have a ported shroud at this level for longevity.

You have enough engine to support either one of the 67mm turbos and go very fast. IMO, on a 231-235 ci combo, with regards to the turbine wheel, both Bison's 65mm and Precision's 66mm CEA turbine wheels are plenty for high to mid 9's in a full weight turbo Buick when you go with the .85 A/R turbine housing. The .63 A/R is best for street and quickest spool up. Try to spend once, as this selection for your combo is critical. What are your short term and long term goals with the car?

-Patrick-

 

[87gn-newbee]

He’s running a TE45A currently not a 59, must be a typo. This is my old car and only thing I would change is the converter.

 

[434nova]

I’m running a te45a and going 10.20s &@ 133. I myself is looking to upgrade. Tell him to look into a 6466 or 6465. Plenty of turbo with fast spooling to make a Buick scream.

 

[marleyskater420]

I want to preface my post by saying that I think Bison is incredibly intelligent and I have the utmost respect for him. Even though we are technically "competitors" I still firmly believe there are few in this industry that have as much experience as him.

CLIFFNOTES:
1) WORK G4S 6465 journal or ball bearing
2) Garrett GTW 6765
3) WORK Flank-Milled 6465
4) Borg Warner 66/68


That being said, I seem to take the road less traveled. I take my recommendations/knowledge from Reed Partridge, owner of WORK Turbos, who has been turbos almost as long as I've been alive. He doesn't just buy wheels and housings and assemble turbos, he actually designs his own compressor/turbine wheels and housings.

If you have a TE45A, which is an awesome turbo, and you want to upgrade from there I would look into 2 factors of the turbo;
1) Is it a true forged wheel? (Not those "MFS" wheels but real billet 2618 aluminum.
2) Is the wheel flank-milled, or point-milled? Flank milled wheels are billet wheels that the machinery only makes 1 pass over the wheel, so the design of the compressor wheel can only be as complex as it can make in 1 pass. A point-milled wheel uses multiple passes over the compressor wheel, which allows for a much more intricate design, improving aerodynamics and overall performance. Point-milled wheels will also spool quicker than a flank milled if the design was done right.

PTE GEN 2 CEA wheels use Point-Milled wheels. Borg Warner uses a combination Point/Flank design, GTW wheels from Garrett use Point-Milled wheels, and WORK's new "G4" turbos use Point-Milled wheels.

When you are paying for a more expensive turbo it may be due to the type of wheel they are using, or simply how much profit the company wants to make. Depends on the company.

I am saying all this to give a shoddy explanation as to why a newer turbo that has a compressor wheel the same size or even smaller, can provide you with increased performance.

Flank-milled wheels are still very good performing turbos. The difference that I would tell people when they call and ask, is that a flank-milled would work perfect for a street car with some track use, but primarily for someone who is not class racing or trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out of their turbo.

The point-milled wheels are for people who the most out of their turbo and will push it to the max. No offense, but 99% of people on this board will never reach that point. You still have folks that want the best just to have the best, which is find. Diversity is the spice of life.

So wtf does all this mean?

Well, you want to ask whoever is building your turbo what type of wheels they use if the product is rather expensive.

Second, it gives you multiple options to choose from depending on what level of performance you are looking for.

I sell WORK Turbos. I am biased towards them, but that does not mean I do not respect the technology used in PTE's wheels. However, with the new "G4" turbos from WORK that use point-milled wheels, I firmly believe people will start to see PTE's aren't the only wheels that can make crazy power.

I'm going to break down my recommendations into two types; Economic and Premium.

Premium:
1) If you are looking for 9-second power that spools great, I would recommend a Garrett GTW 6765 or 6465 that comes in both journal and ball bearing. That turbo can support mid-9s without working incredibly hard.
2) The new WORK G4S 6465 that uses a different compressor wheel than the GTW. The WORK unit has modified compressor an turbine housings to help airflow, along with a new ceramic coating on the turbine housing to help retain heat. These come in both journal and ball bearing.

Economical:
1) WORK flank-milled 6465 or 6765. These are journal bearing units. These are great performers, especially for the cost.
2) Borg Warner 66/68 300SXE unit. This is a journal bearing unit that will make serious power. This will take you as far as you'd want to go without stressing that compressor wheel. There is also a 69mm compressor wheel that has made close to 1,000rwhp on a GN1-headed engine at 30psi+

I know this may be a lot of information for some, but I am firm believer in educating the customer. A more educated customer can make the proper decision in regards to what is best for their setup.

If you have any further questions, please ask.

 

[87gn-newbee]

He’s running a TE45A currently not a 59, must be a typo. This is my old car and only thing I would change is the converter.

I meant 49....

 

[Mr.Spool]

I've been out of the turbo Buick scene for a while and recently got another 86. The car came with a TE49A with a Garrett .63 housing. Here in the near future I'm going to upgrade to a more modern efficient ball bearing quick spool turbo, and would like opinions of what might be a good street/strip turbo for my combo. The motor is a full forged/billet .010" over rotating assembly with 80s, big pump, FAST, FMIC, 70mm TB & plenum, Hughes 3800 10" non lock converter and built tranny. Around the same time replace the turbo, I'm also replacing the converter to a tighter unit. The car will mostly see street driving with an occasional trip to the track and maybe a light to light race here and there. I'm wanting the turbo to spool quickly and pull hard to redline. Any help with be greatly appreciated!!

bb billet 64mm/and whatever ex wheel you want to use and octane with a good tune.on my combo at the time, 18/19 psi it ran 10s,at 28/29psi trapped 137mph at 3800lbs,tnetics 64/68bb.loose the hughes with this turbo you will need a tighter converter.

 

[bison]

The MFS 6262 and the correct converter will be much more responsive. Could do a GTW 6265 and possibly an EFR 8374 which will both respond much quicker and support about the same as the old 45. Converter is the game changer if you want your car e.t. As it should


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[434nova]

The MFS 6262 and the correct converter will be much more responsive. Could do a GTW 6265 and possibly an EFR 8374 which will both respond much quicker and support about the same as the old 45. Converter is the game changer if you want your car e.t. As it should


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Would a journal bearing 6766 with a .63 exhaust housing spool faster than a te45a with a .63 exhaust housing? Both running precision housings.

 

[bison]

The MFS 6262 and the correct converter will be much more responsive. Could do a GTW 6265 and possibly an EFR 8374 which will both respond much quicker and support about the same as the old 45. Converter is the game changer if you want your car e.t. As it should


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Would a journal bearing 6766 with a .63 exhaust housing spool faster than a te45a with a .63 exhaust housing? Both running precision housings.

Hard to say for sure in everything but probably yes due to the reduction in mass but the 67 I use has a smaller exducer to widen the useful range of the compressor and will take a little more to get the shaft speeds needed to get the pressure ratios up. I only had one car that I had data from that was a direct switch from the cast wheel p trim 45 to the MFS 6766 and the 67 did spool faster on that application.


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[bison]

The MFS 6262 and the correct converter will be much more responsive. Could do a GTW 6265 and possibly an EFR 8374 which will both respond much quicker and support about the same as the old 45. Converter is the game changer if you want your car e.t. As it should


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Would a journal bearing 6766 with a .63 exhaust housing spool faster than a te45a with a .63 exhaust housing? Both running precision housings.

Hard to say for sure in everything but probably yes due to the reduction in mass but the 67 I use has a smaller exducer to widen the useful range of the compressor and will take a little more to get the shaft speeds needed to get the pressure ratios up. I only had one car that I had data from that was a direct switch from the cast wheel p trim 45 to the MFS 6766 and the 67 did spool faster on that application. Though we weren’t looking for quicker spoolup. We wanted more air flow.


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[434nova]

Hard to say for sure in everything but probably yes due to the reduction in mass but the 67 I use has a smaller exducer to widen the useful range of the compressor and will take a little more to get the shaft speeds needed to get the pressure ratios up. I only had one car that I had data from that was a direct switch from the cast wheel p trim 45 to the MFS 6766 and the 67 did spool faster on that application. Though we weren’t looking for quicker spoolup. We wanted more air flow.


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Thanks for the info.

 

[marleyskater420]

Would a journal bearing 6766 with a .63 exhaust housing spool faster than a te45a with a .63 exhaust housing? Both running precision housings.

If it is a newer style 67 wheel, then yes it will.

A MFS 67mm wheel will spool better than cast, but a Garrett GTW, WORK G4, or Precision Gen 2 CEA will all spool faster than a MFS 67.

Those 3 wheel types all use high quality billet aluminum wheels that utilize point-milling manufacturing processes to allow for less wheel mass, thinner blades, increased blade angles, lower inertia rates for increased spool up characteristics and part-throttle response.

Basically, if you are talking about a newer 67mm compressor wheel, it will spool faster due to the advancements in technology that the new wheels utilize; specifically those manufacturers I listed use the latest third-order geometry designs in their wheels to provide the highest level of output from their respective turbocharger compressor wheels.

Hard to say for sure in everything but probably yes due to the reduction in mass but the 67 I use has a smaller exducer to widen the useful range of the compressor and will take a little more to get the shaft speeds needed to get the pressure ratios up. I only had one car that I had data from that was a direct switch from the cast wheel p trim 45 to the MFS 6766 and the 67 did spool faster on that application.


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Does the MFS 67mm wheel you are talking about utilize extended-tip blade designs on it? Is that why you are referencing the reduction in mass?

Wouldn't the the smaller nose and reduction in hub size allow the MFS 67 to spool quicker as well, provided the wheel was designed in the first place with those things?

Have you tried other 67mm wheels with higher quality alloys that allow for much more severe exducer angles on the blade, or wheels that utilize ETT and maintain a smaller exducer diameter for lower rotating mass intertia?

You have more knowledge of direct turbo swaps than just about anyone in this Buick community, and I'd love to know what comparisons you have done with these new high end wheel designs. And I mean higher than something KTS would offer.

 

[bison]

Would a journal bearing 6766 with a .63 exhaust housing spool faster than a te45a with a .63 exhaust housing? Both running precision housings.

If it is a newer style 67 wheel, then yes it will.

A MFS 67mm wheel will spool better than cast, but a Garrett GTW, WORK G4, or Precision Gen 2 CEA will all spool faster than a MFS 67.

Those 3 wheel types all use high quality billet aluminum wheels that utilize point-milling manufacturing processes to allow for less wheel mass, thinner blades, increased blade angles, lower inertia rates for increased spool up characteristics and part-throttle response.

Basically, if you are talking about a newer 67mm compressor wheel, it will spool faster due to the advancements in technology that the new wheels utilize; specifically those manufacturers I listed use the latest third-order geometry designs in their wheels to provide the highest level of output from their respective turbocharger compressor wheels.

Hard to say for sure in everything but probably yes due to the reduction in mass but the 67 I use has a smaller exducer to widen the useful range of the compressor and will take a little more to get the shaft speeds needed to get the pressure ratios up. I only had one car that I had data from that was a direct switch from the cast wheel p trim 45 to the MFS 6766 and the 67 did spool faster on that application.


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Does the MFS 67mm wheel you are talking about utilize extended-tip blade designs on it? Is that why you are referencing the reduction in mass?

Wouldn't the the smaller nose and reduction in hub size allow the MFS 67 to spool quicker as well, provided the wheel was designed in the first place with those things?

Have you tried other 67mm wheels with higher quality alloys that allow for much more severe exducer angles on the blade, or wheels that utilize ETT and maintain a smaller exducer diameter for lower rotating mass intertia?

You have more knowledge of direct turbo swaps than just about anyone in this Buick community, and I'd love to know what comparisons you have done with these new high end wheel designs. And I mean higher than something KTS would offer.

I’ve tested plenty of wheels and actually have a running driving car where I’ve acquired thousands of logs. The wheel itself is only a small part of the equation. Your chasing after pennies and should be going for $


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[434nova]

I’ve tested plenty of wheels and actually have a running driving car where I’ve acquired thousands of logs. The wheel itself is only a small part of the equation. Your chasing after pennies and should be going for $


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Does the size of the cover effect spoolup?
Ported s vs ported h cover
Also does the size of the cover limit the boost output?

 

[bison]

Compressor covers were already covered.


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