Total seal rings

[buickcowboy]

I installed total seal rings during my rebuild and am now having oil consumption problems. Does anyone have a solution? I think it's going through the PCV back into the intake manifold. Any suggestions?

 

[gnx7]

are they file fit or gapless?

-Mark

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

with good ring seal like you get with total seals you normally get more vacuum at idle whch sucks harder on the pcv valve ..

IMO no turbo regal should still have a pcv valve

 

[buickcowboy]

pcv

I installed a clear plastic 3/8" line from the hardware store between the pcv valve and the throttle body (behind the throttle blade). I am pulling 12" of vacuum at idle with a Comp 260 (206) cam. I could see oil very slowly getting sucked up almost to the metal line but not to it. Revving the engine or snapping the throttle closed still would not pull the oil to the metal lines.(even pinching the line almost closed) Oil was not fully heated though so viscosity may have been a factor. This tells me that oil IS going through while cruising and decelerating. Vacuum signal would be higher while cruising and even higher yet when throttle closes while engine is spinning up fast. I spoke to total seal yesterday & the tech guy told me to get rid of the driver & passenger's side valve cover K&N breather & close it off completely. He said to connect a T at the pcv line to the turbo inlet like the stock setup(between the compressor & MAF). Under boost it would vacuum the crankcase to prevent leaks and actually improve power by pulling downward on the pistons. My thought is two things: 1st: Boost leaking at the T going back into the inlet path and 2nd: Oil possibly filling the intercooler.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

that t Idea dont sound to swift in our application

I have seen people try everything to the pcv system ... still got oil in the intake

take the 2 bolts holding the vacuum pod on the t/b and Im betting you'll find oil in there

 

[wnarunm]

Ok, no flaming here... but

Back in the day my friend installed the total seal gapless rings in his SBC and that sucker pumped oil. We thought maybe the hone job or some other cylinder problem... but it was definatly ring related. Took them out problem went away. Another friend's brand new motor, this time an LT1 stroker was burning oil bad, and of course he commented on his gapless rings. He later took them out and his problem went away. Now after spending the better part of a year getting certified as a performace engine builder I have learned that the gapless ring design has a flaw.

-any race engine builder will tell you that todays trend is running a substantially larger gap on the second ring and a substaintially tighter gap (ring manufacturers recogmendations can be conservative) on the top ring. The top ring seals primary function is to seal combustion pressures the second rings functions as combustion sealing/heat transfer and oil control. The tighter the second ring = more chances of trapping combustion and fluttring the rings causing CRAZY amounts of oil consuption.

The design of the gapless ring actually causes the top ring to lift and flutter becuase the combustion becomes trapped between the first and second rings. Basically they seal TOO well.

How can you make it work? = gapless top ring and standard bottom ring.

It is true that total seal rings are some of the best made, but no professional racer runs the gapless that i've heard of, they run the standard total seals.

 

[buickcowboy]

pcv

And now for my next experiment, I'm gonna try to trap the oil. I'm thinking take an airtight container and connect it inline in the pcv line. The pcv end should connect about 1/2 or 2/3 the way up on the container and the throttle body end should connect at the top. The oil should collect in the container, right? Then measure collected oil vs. oil usage on the dipstick. I'll post results later.

 

[Spooled85gn]

EVERY ONE I KNOW THAT INSTALLED TOTAL SEALS END UP PLUGGING THE PCV VAC PORT ON THE VAC POD LEAVING THE PCV VALVE IN AND THE RUBBER HOSE SO OIL CANT SPLASH OUT OF THE PCV HOLE. AFTER PLUGGING THE VAC SOURCE THE OIL CONSUMPTION GOES AWAY

 

[dyermullet]

Re: pcv

Originally posted by buickcowboy
And now for my next experiment, I'm gonna try to trap the oil. I'm thinking take an airtight container and connect it inline in the pcv line. The pcv end should connect about 1/2 or 2/3 the way up on the container and the throttle body end should connect at the top. The oil should collect in the container, right? Then measure collected oil vs. oil usage on the dipstick. I'll post results later.

wonder if you put the line in the bottom of the container, then the oil would drain back down into the motor.

 

[ijames]

There have been several threads about oil through the pcv valve over the last year, with various designs for oil separators and lots of discussion. I'm sure you would find it interesting reading .

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

Originally posted by wnarunm
Ok, no flaming here... but

Back in the day my friend installed the total seal gapless rings in his SBC and that sucker pumped oil. We thought maybe the hone job or some other cylinder problem... but it was definatly ring related. Took them out problem went away. Another friend's brand new motor, this time an LT1 stroker was burning oil bad, and of course he commented on his gapless rings. He later took them out and his problem went away. Now after spending the better part of a year getting certified as a performace engine builder I have learned that the gapless ring design has a flaw.

-any race engine builder will tell you that todays trend is running a substantially larger gap on the second ring and a substaintially tighter gap (ring manufacturers recogmendations can be conservative) on the top ring. The top ring seals primary function is to seal combustion pressures the second rings functions as combustion sealing/heat transfer and oil control. The tighter the second ring = more chances of trapping combustion and fluttring the rings causing CRAZY amounts of oil consuption.

The design of the gapless ring actually causes the top ring to lift and flutter becuase the combustion becomes trapped between the first and second rings. Basically they seal TOO well.

How can you make it work? = gapless top ring and standard bottom ring.

It is true that total seal rings are some of the best made, but no professional racer runs the gapless that i've heard of, they run the standard total seals.

that works in n/a motors ...boosted motors top ring gets too hot for thin lil gapless rings

go to total seals site and you will see they have top gapless for n/a and 2nd gapless for boosted motors

ring flutter has alot more to do with rpm thats why high rpm sb or whatever gapless rings dont work so well

on boosted and nitrous motors I prefer total seals