Timing issue with fast 2.0

[moose102]

I have a 4.1 with Fast 2.0, and a tr6 ignition. I checked the crank and found the mark to be 4 degrees off. I tried to verify the 10 degree timing setting as required, I have the fast on Buick and the reference to 10 deg. RPM is 900, I do not see a mark at all. I set the reference to 20 degrees still saw nothing near the mark, I set it to 30 degrees and finally saw the mark at the 6 degree point. If I set it back to 10 and on the tr6 flp dip switch 1 to on, I do read 11 or 12 degrees. Is the fast supposed to retard the timing so much? Not sure how to resolve this one.

 

[Boost231]

Hold up.. are you moving the crank reference number to that? You need to put it in fixed timing. Click the box and read what you have it set at. I usually set it to 15 and click fixed timing. Go out and check it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Boost231]

Once you do that then you change the crank reference number up or down to move the timing to the amount its locked on. You only need to adjust it up or down a few numbers to move it. If you have it fixed timing at 15 and you check timing and it's at 13 and your cran reference is at 2 all you need to do is adjust it a number or 2.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[moose102]

Right, by setting the fast at 8 deg, correct? But I stand corrected, setting dip 1 on the tr6 should have set the timing at 10 deg. but it was at 6 deg since checking the mark, was off by 4 degrees. When I put 6 in the program I see no sign of a mark until I set it at 30, then I see 6 degrees (dip 1 off on the tr6).

 

[turbo nasty]

IMO Try the TR6 with timing OFF. And then try the FAST with timing locked to say 28 and check with light

 

[Boost231]

Dont mess with the TR6 dip switches. Put the xfi at fix 15 deg and adjust crank ref angel as needed

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[moose102]

Boost231, are you saying 15 deg test then set the cra at 6 (if mark is off by 4 deg)?

 

[Boost231]

Yes, well kinda.

Put it at fixed timing 15 deg. If it's off 2 deg. Changing the number from 4 to 6 wont move it 2 deg. It will move the timing some but not in a amount like that. Might take 4 or 5 to move it to. Almost you might have to go from 4 to 2 or 1. You'll have to see which way you need to move it

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[moose102]

Sorry I took so long but the weather changed and Im able to work on this now. I took the boost pipe off to get a better look to confirm what I have. When setting fast timing to 8 degrees I see the mark on the other side of the water pump, I set it at 20 deg, It starts coming into the timing indicator, idle set at 900 rpm, fuel pressure at 45 lbs w/ vacuum unplugged. When I set the fast at at 33 deg is exactly when I see it at 10 degrees. How can the timing be so far away from where it is supposed to be?

 

[moose102]

Well, in reading old post here I found that the person I purchased the car from who supposedly built this motor, used a TA style timing cover with a stock indicator. In the older post, it is not compatible with the stock timing indicator because it is off by a number of degrees..

 

[turbo nasty]

Well, in reading old post here I found that the person I purchased the car from who supposedly built this motor, used a TA style timing cover with a stock indicator. In the older post, it is not compatible with the stock timing indicator because it is off by a number of degrees..

TA cover is a stock style cover...the pointer is in same spot and doesnt read different. Maybe a aftermarket balancer with teh reluctor not quite right could cause it.

 

[moose102]

Thanks for the reply Turbo Nasty! I was wrong about the indicator and I believe the issue is the reluctor. I have set the timing in the fast program (reference angle) to 35 which puts the timing at 11 btdc so this seems fine to me. I did a street run and it ran well but my timing is really flat at the 35 deg. Do i go ahead and change the timing table to say add 22 deg at full boost by adding 22 btdc to the 35 btdc which would be 57 on the timing table? Also, what do these motors like for timing at cruise and idle?

 

[Jerryl]

OP,
I know you are trying hard to figure out the issue, but it's never a good idea to "lie" to a system that controls the difference between success or a broken crank. It's always beneficial to find the exact cause of the issue being dealt with, or pay for help in finding it.
Things have to be right, and shortcuts typically result in added cost.

Not sure who the system was purchased from, but probably wise at this point to pay Cal or some other expert for help and to get it right.

Hope you get it figured out. Good luck.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Piston stop in, and find where TDC really is. Then check the balancer.

 

[moose102]

Chuck, I already did that. The mark is 4 degrees off, I made a reference mark on the balancer then set the new mark to ten degrees by setting fast refrence angle to 35 which puts the corrected mark at 10-11 degrees.
Jerryl, thank you for the input and I get what you are saying and appreciate the advice. I never thought about the distorted truth angle but that hit home. I will set it on the 10 Deg BTDC and pull the balancer again and take another look at the relluctor and take another look.

 

[turbo nasty]

Also I would NOT run 22 degrees under boost until you get it sorted. Dont want to pop it or kill rod bearings

 

[moose102]

OK, I have the balancer/reluctor her and comparing it to an old post for reluctor alignment, it seems fine. So I went back to the Fast PDF and it mentions retarded timing if the wires are wrong for the crank sensor......
Connect this plug to an inductive pickup type crankshaft sensor (typically a inductive pickup crank trigger or distributor), and connect the ring terminal to a ground point such as the engine block. The following chart shows the wire colors to connect for some common crank triggers. Virtually any crank trigger system should be compatible, so long as it is properly connected. IMPORTANT NOTE: The wiring conventions of different manufacturers can vary. FAST users should rely on this chart when connecting the listed crank triggers. That will ensure the ECU receives the required “positive first” sine wave from the crank trigger. If the wiring is reversed, timing may be retarded, erratic and/or change with engine speed. The FAST IPU ignition adapter harness will supply you with the MSD style connectors. Red (Mag+) Terminal A Black (Mag-) Terminal B MSD Distributor Violet/Black Orange/Black MSD Crank Trigger Green Violet Accel 44000 Series Black White Accel Crank Trigger Black White Pin A – IPU crank +, red (A4)
I have three wires on terminals a1 to a4 ( no wire on a3, I figure the crank and cam sensors share a ground) . Has anyone experienced anything with this phenomenon

 

[Jerryl]

Interesting as I would think that if the sensor was wired incorrectly, the car would not start.
Admittedly, I have not read all the fine details in this thread, but do you think the KR system is retarding the timing? I realize this "should" show on the dash, but wondering . . . . .
Can you post pictures of the sensor and plug, plus the reluctor ring?

 

[moose102]

Shure. Went to put the balancer back on and found that the alignment key seems to be broken where it goes into the bottom timing gear. Ill post a pic of that as well.

 

[moose102]

When I received this Buick the balancer was about to fall off. Maybe that's what caused the broken key. Hair pictures I'll post more in a second