Throttle Responsiveness

bishir

Serenity Now
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
My intuition tells me our cars don't have the throttle response required to be ultra competitive in an auto-x type racing environment. Since I'm building my car to be more competitive in this type of racing I'm curious what mods you've done, or think would be more suited to this type of racing in regards to engine response.
 
Using the correct turbo and converter will make response as fast as the accelerator can be pushed down. Building an engine around your application will help too. If you only need 400hp where you race you could build a higher compression engine and pick up response and power. It depends on the goals. If you want to be competitive you need to think outside the box constantly. If you run what everyone else is you won't be competitive.
 
Good points, this thread doesn't have to be all about me, but in my case I feel my converter and turbo are matched pretty well. On our cars would you generally agree a larger throttle body would help? I too agree it's the combo, but I'm speaking in general terms. Also, course layouts would typically mean less of an opportunity for high boost RPM applications and more combos that take advantage of the lower-mid range RPM ranges.
 
I'm thinking make as much boost as your suspension/tires/talent can handle. No more! Probably go with smaller turbo and cam to push torque down the RPM scale. Not sure about torque converter. Of course, lot depends rear ratio, trans ratio and what gear(s) you plan to run in. On shorter courses, you could probably be ok in 2nd gear (using 1st only out of the gate). Will a turbo Buick ever beat the top dogs.....certainly could if similar time and $'s were spent for R&D/track time but Regal appears to have a fairly high center of gravity (compared to Camaros, Corvettes, etc) and lack of ABS/traction control so it will be tough. Buy lots of stuff from Scot at GNS Performance and he might get there some day. Wish Stan Davis' car was still around....it might have had a chance! Hell, I would be happy stomping some of those pesky Mustang Cobra's! FWIW, Scot has already done that!! Thanks Scot. We are proud of you.
Conrad
 
you will need a responsive turbo, but then you will have issues controlling the power in traffic. You will need to control the wastegate based on throttle so you can ease out of the throttle when overtaking traffic.

A larger throttle body will do nothing for you.

Bob
 
good point, although power modulation would be important in auto-x also.

my mind is on road racing today, the 12H at Sebring is running today.

Bob
 
Great point. Hadn't thought about roadracing at a real track. That would be a whole different animal! I can just see me zipping by all those LS motored cars about half way down the straights! Anyone ran one of our TB's at a Silver State lately (Yes, I know about Stan Davis but that has been a while)?
Conrad
 
good point, although power modulation would be important in auto-x also.

my mind is on road racing today, the 12H at Sebring is running today.

Bob


Ya, I'm trying to keep track of that race also. Two reasons, 3 Ford Ecoboost powered cars running in the Prototype class, and they and 4 others also equipped with Borg Warner turbos. :D
 
I run stock turbo, converter, IC, tranny, etc for autox and I think the car is plenty responsive. It's more in the driving style. You can actually utilize the slight moment of turbo lag/buildup to get on the gas a second or two earlier in a turn than the NA cars would. As far as the gearing, 1st and 2nd will cover most autox courses and I let it shift when it wants. These cars (even mostly stock like mine) make plenty of power to be quick on an autox, it's all about getting them to turn and stick. I think these cars actually rotate very well so tires make a huge difference in how hard you can throw it into a corner.

I've beaten many late model Mustangs with various mods, Camaros, Vettes, and CTS-Vs as well. If you watch a lot of the late model muscle cars autox, there's a good chance they aren't smooth with their inputs. The GN is an easy car to autox if you look ahead and don't treat every straight like a drag strip and every corner like a panic stop. The Mustang guys do that a lot.
 
Honestly most of the time I put it in D so that way it can go to third if it needs it and I don't have to worry about it. It'll only go there usually if you have a good straightaway which is not too common. I've never had any problem running it like that.
 
The MAIN problem is "Instant Torque" like the 500-900 hp LS engines have running in this sport! we with our little v6's don't have that same instant torque like those LS engines have, we have to wait for our turbo's to spool in order for us to have that kind of torque or we have to be creative with the throttle entering and exiting turns to keep that turbo spooled up but then it's traction!.....LOL....

I have been doing this for several years now with these TR's (8 to be exact) and I have learned from experience on what works and what doesn't with these cars and I am still fighting the "Perfect Balance" for these cars.... But to this point Anyone that has driven in my car can attest to it's performance & smooth drive ability...This hobby is all about pushing the car and it's products to the limits and you will find those weak points real quick when your actually out there pushing your car doing this sport....

On short courses I put the car in 2nd and on other longer courses I use "D" and give it hell..... Bison has built my turbo for my car...... the converter I use is spragless (not sure if that is hurting or helping me) but the most important and from my personal experience is the "Baffled" oil pan to save your Bearings & Engine which we are coming out with here Very shortly, and the rear end...... Mostly Everyone is using the Detroit "True-Track" which will shave seconds off your times vs the stock crap clutch disc's.....

Suspension set up is another story, My car's rear was wanting to slide out on hard fast turns and going 4 clicks "Softer" on the rear RT coil overs eliminated all of it! Sometimes it's just a shock dampening adjustment to solve your issue....

The best thing Anyone can do to better yourself in the sport of Auto-X is "Seat Time" to make you faster....


.
 
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I've always thought an extra quart of oil would help... An oldtimer told my friend they're always run an extra quart of oil when running the banking at talledega to keep the pickup covered. I was wonder if the same concept would apply, minus the banking of course.
 
The best thing Anyone can do to better yourself in the sport of Auto-X is "Seat Time" to make you faster....


.

this! I love auto-x and road racing. Havent done any in a couple years but I could outwheel some fast cars in my dodge dakota. I was out every weekend in a parking lot hooning the crap out of it and knew EXACTLY how far into a corner i could push it before spinning out.
 
Anyone know height of C.G. of our cars? How about for 1st or 2nd gen Camaro? Bet TB is way higher than Camaro.

What is best way to drop C.G.? No sunroof. Not sure about T-top.... Move battery from front to PS trunk or to PS rear floorboard (sealed battery...Optima or sealed battery box). Lightweight seats and/or lower seats. Fiberglass hood, trunk, doors, bumpers, aluminum bumper support, aluminum spacer (replace shock absorber), lightweight wheels, aluminum heads, aluminum block, lightweight inter cooler, A/C delete, coil-over shocks, etc. Anyone know how to determine hor/vert location of C.G.?
Conrad
 
Anyone know height of C.G. of our cars? How about for 1st or 2nd gen Camaro? Bet TB is way higher than Camaro.

What is best way to drop C.G.? No sunroof. Not sure about T-top.... Move battery from front to PS trunk or to PS rear floorboard (sealed battery...Optima or sealed battery box). Lightweight seats and/or lower seats. Fiberglass hood, trunk, doors, bumpers, aluminum bumper support, aluminum spacer (replace shock absorber), lightweight wheels, aluminum heads, aluminum block, lightweight inter cooler, A/C delete, coil-over shocks, etc. Anyone know how to determine hor/vert location of C.G.?
Conrad
Conrad,

A nice quality set of scales is the best way to determine where the weight is on your car and the only way to achieve the 50/50 weight balance. DSE Lowers their seat mounting brackets to get them as low in the car as possible, and with the scales it's best to scale it with you in the car....
 
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