Swapped to a 4L80E

[GNVYUS 1]

Wow came across this late..
No biggie Bob but...
When possible can you mind posting some converter numbers like...

Foot brake stall vs your old PTC
WOT Slippage %
Rpm drop on disk lock up

Is there a way to calculate trans loss vs the 200? Like it's 3% less efficient etc. There's always talk in other threads on trans swaps and losing a little power on dyno back to backs.

Now that you've gone through all the guinea tests for us and have a great list to bolt it on, sounds tempting as our platform keeps getting more powerful to follow your lead.

 

[TurboBob]

I don't have much in the way of aggressive test numbers yet. Once I got it installed I wanted to take it easy on the car since I was going to drive it to NC and didn't need to blow a head gasket or some other nonsense. I do have some info at the 15 psi level, but the shift points are still conservative so the "slip" numbers you are looking for aren't there.

It feels the same as my 17 blade PTC NL for driveability, the "tightness" at the top end is something I'm looking forward to documenting. But there are 9.5 NL's for the 4L80 for those guys that want it.

As far as loss, the internet is full of naysayers but very few (I have found only 1) with actual data. The difference is negligible.

Bob

 

[Mr.Spool]

What truly needs to be discussed is the hp rating on 4l80e builds that can be done.
A bone stock 4l80e is not going to take any real power.
after 9 pages of threads the builds needed for certain power levels has yielded no discussion.
Wonder why?
Well I guess I will offer some truth from what we have seen to what is needed to handle various power levels.
The truth is its gonna take some $$ to get the 4l80 to take x power level.
As matter of fact to do 1000hp + easily can spend $ 10,000
850=4600
For under 750hp rated easily 2600$.
Looking at companies like
Monster transmission.
Jake's performance
The list goes on.
One can do their own research.
The 4l80 has failed in alot of just bone stock trucks that we've seen.
Yes it can be a great unit
But will need various upgrades to handle 550/750/1000/1200hp levels
like most performance trannies out there
People will need to upgrade.
Same with a 400/ glide based on specific power levels with the weight and tire of the cars a big factor.

 

[Quick Turbo V6]

What truly needs to be discussed is the hp rating on 4l80e builds that can be done.
A bone stock 4l80e is not going to take any real power.
after 9 pages of threads the builds needed for certain power levels has yielded no discussion.
Wonder why?
Well I guess I will offer some truth from what we have seen to what is needed to handle various power levels.
The truth is its gonna take some $$ to get the 4l80 to take x power level.
As matter of fact to do 1000hp + easily can spend $ 10,000
850=4600
For under 750hp rated easily 2600$.
Looking at companies like
Monster transmission.
Jake's performance
The list goes on.
One can do their own research.
The 4l80 has failed in alot of just bone stock trucks that we've seen.
Yes it can be a great unit
But will need various upgrades to handle 550/750/1000/1200hp levels
like most performance trannies out there
People will need to upgrade.
Same with a 400/ glide based on specific power levels with the weight and tire of the cars a big factor.

The L80 can withstand more power “stock” then the 200. If you put a “stock” built 200 in a “stock” GN and then did the same with a L80 the L80 will out live that 200 all day long. A “stock” L80 will handle 400+ hp easily. I don’t know where you’re seeing $10,000 for a unit that holds 1,000 hp. Then you talk about monster which is the worst company . Anyone that knows anything wouldn’t use them. Here’s a Jake’s built L80 to handle 1500 hp I don’t see a $10,000 price tag.

Scott

 

[Mr.Spool]

The L80 can withstand more power “stock” then the 200. If you put a “stock” built 200 in a “stock” GN and then did the same with a L80 the L80 will out live that 200 all day long. A “stock” L80 will handle 400+ hp easily. I don’t know where you’re seeing $10,000 for a unit that holds 1,000 hp. Then you talk about monster which is the worst company . Anyone that knows anything wouldn’t use them. Here’s a Jake’s built L80 to handle 1500 hp I don’t see a $10,000 price tag.

Scott

Reread my post
I wasnt comparing the 200 to a 4l80.
I was pointing out how if one wants to use this transmission they should have it built for the power they seek
Throwing a stock one in a stock car would be fine not sure why anybody would do that to a stock gn.
And yes 1500hp 4l80e units can go north of $12000 depending on what option are chosen.
I pointed out for those to do a search on the various companies that do these units.
I didnt single out and trash a company like you have done.
I have seen a monster transmission before unit worked pretty good behind an 700rwhp truck that was heavy
But the owner paid a pretty good price for it.
A simple Google search will bring up a host of these units from $2600 to $12500+.

 

[Mr.Spool]

The L80 can withstand more power “stock” then the 200. If you put a “stock” built 200 in a “stock” GN and then did the same with a L80 the L80 will out live that 200 all day long. A “stock” L80 will handle 400+ hp easily. I don’t know where you’re seeing $10,000 for a unit that holds 1,000 hp. Then you talk about monster which is the worst company . Anyone that knows anything wouldn’t use them. Here’s a Jake’s built L80 to handle 1500 hp I don’t see a $10,000 price tag.

Scott

Start adding the goodies to the jake unit you get up there very fast
Just click on the rest of the options

 

[TurboBob]

There are lots of builders that can build a solid unit, so buying local is a great convenience. Beyond that there are several well known builders across the nation that will mail order one, and I suspect their pricing is similar.

Check out Jakes and Extreme Automatics, an auto shift unit for up to 750hp (most of us, right?) is 3500-4000. Beyond that, like everything, HP costs money.

I went with a local builder (Scott), a fairly basic build for ~700 hp. We didn't do any billet stuff since I don't plan to race it.

Bob

 

[HalfDozIN]

A 4l80 with a very basic, near-stock rebuild will handle power approaching the levels of most 200 builders' "level/stage 2" unit all day long. Those are almost always $3,000+ builds these days. Mine was built locally, with nothing more than dual feeding direct and the Superior kit. It cost me $1400. Converters cost money either way, you have to pay to play. I used the stock crossmember like Bob, and I'm just controlling mine manually right now, since it's not a daily driver. Works great. Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but it certainly is a viable option these days.

 

[Mr.Spool]

A 4l80 with a very basic, near-stock rebuild will handle power approaching the levels of most 200 builders' "level/stage 2" unit all day long. Those are almost always $3,000+ builds these days. Mine was built locally, with nothing more than dual feeding direct and the Superior kit. It cost me $1400. Converters cost money either way, you have to pay to play. I used the stock crossmember like Bob, and I'm just controlling mine manually right now, since it's not a daily driver. Works great. Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but it certainly is a viable option these days.

How much power are you making?
How fast has the car been at what weight?

 

[Mr.Spool]

had one recently fail behind a mild 109 iron head hydraulic roller 64 bb turbo combo in the 750hp avg with a max 800hp.
Was a stockish type build.
Car was light too
But the torque was very high
Rpm wasn't too high also
Less than 5500rpm.
Usually that's what kills them from the experts I'm told.
Maybe it's the tbrake launches
Had a decent amount of hits on it but it was a gradual fail till it wouldn't move
We chased our asses to try and figure it out as the car was a stock ECM and data was scarce.
Owner will upgrade
Time to pay to play i guess.
But if the owner spent $$ in the 1st place it would still he rolling.
Instead of trying to roll the dice on a tranny rated for 400hp/465lbft of torque

 

[TurboBob]

had one recently fail behind a mild 109 iron head hydraulic roller 64 bb turbo combo in the 750hp avg with a max 800hp.
Was a stockish type build.
Car was light too
But the torque was very high
Rpm wasn't too high also
Less than 5500rpm.
Usually that's what kills them from the experts I'm told.
Maybe it's the tbrake launches
Had a decent amount of hits on it but it was a gradual fail till it wouldn't move
We chased our asses to try and figure it out as the car was a stock ECM and data was scarce.
Owner will upgrade
Time to pay to play i guess.
But if the owner spent $$ in the 1st place it would still he rolling.
Instead of trying to roll the dice on a tranny rated for 400hp/465lbft of torque

curious about this.
.. 750 - 800 hp is a lot for a "stockish" build
.. transbrake in a "stockish" build?
.. gradual failure... was the pressure starting to fade, perhaps low on fluid, curious what actually failed.
.. stock ecm and no data..... manual valvebody, fixed line or modulator? Nobody tested the pressure?

 

[Mr.Spool]

curious about this.
.. 750 - 800 hp is a lot for a "stockish" build
.. transbrake in a "stockish" build?
.. gradual failure... was the pressure starting to fade, perhaps low on fluid, curious what actually failed.
.. stock ecm and no data..... manual valvebody, fixed line or modulator? Nobody tested the pressure?

this build was stock crank/rods ported iron heads small hydraulic roller with 1.55 rockers and beehive springs.
Been together for a awile.
Started loosing peak boost with boost fluctuations in each gear.
Got to a point where it would not move.
Which is what rossler tells us when we ask when should we gave a rebuild
Pressure was optimal (did not take out the thrust or crank).

 

[HalfDozIN]

How much power are you making?
How fast has the car been at what weight?

I don't know, slow, and heavy. Never weighed or been on a dyno, full weight hardtop, power windows, locks, ac, spare, etc. Only got to mid 7s/high 11s with my ogre self in tow before the 200 let go. I can test back to back at the same low boost, but it won't be apples to apples, as the converter the car came with was too tight to 60' worth a crap. If it costs me a tenth to run the 80e vs a 200 I still won't be upset, for the simple fact that this is a car I get in and drive, and not working on it any more than I already have to is welcome. I don't get a feeling that will be the case, though, based on the few short dragy rips I got in before winter happened.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I don't know, slow, and heavy. Never weighed or been on a dyno, full weight hardtop, power windows, locks, ac, spare, etc. Only got to mid 7s/high 11s with my ogre self in tow before the 200 let go. I can test back to back at the same low boost, but it won't be apples to apples, as the converter the car came with was too tight to 60' worth a crap. If it costs me a tenth to run the 80e vs a 200 I still won't be upset, for the simple fact that this is a car I get in and drive, and not working on it any more than I already have to is welcome. I don't get a feeling that will be the case, though, based on the few short dragy rips I got in before winter happened.

So no data basically
As far as a far comparision with your setup
Agreed,cant be done.
Converters are a big deal I alot of cars
If its wrong it's hard to get the car to work let alone to maximize a timeslip.
Not sure why a you had bad luck with a 200 in a high 11 sec car unless it's a stock build with like a shift kit.
But....
If your frustrated and don't want to spend $$ many have been so I see.
Other transmissions are cheaper to build for sure
A 400/4l80 setup will cost far more than a tenth in the right car though.
Usually just in adding the overall weight let alone the rotating weight from internals.
The gear ratios inside the trans cannot overcome this and there some guys that are old school and try to leave in the 2nd gear ratio therefore killing all the trans torque instead of properly tuning the boost stages
Higher weight
More reciprocating internal weight combined with less 1st gear torque multiplication
Will require more power to achieve the same et
Understanding physics it cant be any different.
Many like the 200s and even build stout turbo 350s to go fast due to overall and internal weight advantages.
But if your happy enjoy
a 200/ 4l80 had od for the guys that want to do 90mph at 2000rpm on the highway/interstate with 3.42 gears and a small tire.