Stupid rookie timing chain question I’m sorry in advance

#1
So I had some medical issues taking me away from my car.
But when I got to my stock timing chain I couldn’t just stop there. My cam lobes were right at spec. The bearing journals were fine but the lobes shown signs of wear. And I actually have a mint condition stock camshafts but my impulsive behavior got the better of me. Buying a comp cams camshaft, flat tappet lifters, pushrods, valve springs, valve retainers, valve locks, and valve stem seals all from comp cams.
Ok now I did a search and came up empty of the timing tensioner stud and some confusing information on my second lifter question.
So ,my question is I got everything installed with a Erson double Roller timing set. All lined up and ready to go. Now I know I had to remove my tensioner for this to work. But do I have to replace the tensioner stud I took out because I can’t find it fit the life of me. I know I put it in my parts washer and where it went from there is anyone’s guess. Does something have to be in that hole? Does it plug oil or anything? And if I do need it can anyone tell my what it’s called and the part number. Is there any oil squirter that hits the chain with oil because I didn’t see anything there.
My other question is as far as the cam, lifters, pushrods, and rockers go. I did everything exactly like the instructions said to do. I actually soaked my lifters for 5 days in oil. I installed them with the comp
Assembly lube on the bottom. But I noticed that now that the rocker arms are all torque down and in place that all the plungers are pushed into the lifters. And the instructions said purposely NOT to pump them full of oil so I didn’t. I just let them soak submerged in 10/30 oil for 5 days. And now they look empty and collapsed with everything assembled. Is that normal? Will they fill up
With oil when I stick my drill and prime tool into the oil pump shaft after I pack the oil pump. I will wait for opinions before I put the intake manifold back on.
Thanks for reading
Happy holidays!!!
 
Last edited:

earlbrown

runs with scissors
#3
You can leave that bolt hole alone, it doesn't go to pressurized oil or water. It's just a threaded hole.

The lifters should always have the cups pushed down off the retaining ring. That's called lifter preload. It's nessessary to allow them to do thier job (and not spit the clip into the oil pump and start chewing up stuff).


Now for the bad news. Those Comp lifters you bought are most likely the finest thing china has to offer when it comes to the cheapest thing Comp can buy to resell. Slide one out since you haven't installed the intake yet....


If it doesn't have a darker disk on the bottom, you're playing with fire. ......a BIG fire.


The disk you're looking for looks like this.

Without it, the bottom of the lifters aren't hardened and can't take much abuse before filling your bearings, turbo and oil cooler, with grit.
 
#4
You can leave that bolt hole alone, it doesn't go to pressurized oil or water. It's just a threaded hole.

The lifters should always have the cups pushed down off the retaining ring. That's called lifter preload. It's nessessary to allow them to do thier job (and not spit the clip into the oil pump and start chewing up stuff).


Now for the bad news. Those Comp lifters you bought are most likely the finest thing china has to offer when it comes to the cheapest thing Comp can buy to resell. Slide one out since you haven't installed the intake yet....


If it doesn't have a darker disk on the bottom, you're playing with fire. ......a BIG fire.


The disk you're looking for looks like this.

Without it, the bottom of the lifters aren't hardened and can't take much abuse before filling your bearings, turbo and oil cooler, with grit.
I will check in the morning. If they are junk should I put my stock lifters back in? My stock lifters never made and noise. I only replaced the cam because the impulsness set in and the cam and lifters came as a kit. And the instructions said in order to not void your warranty you need to but (and it gave me a list of parts that I needed to buy. Right down to the valve locks or keepers). So I just bought what was on the list. But my old lifters are currently sitting in my parts washer I could easily clean and throw them back in. They were perfect. I even measured them because I was gunna list them with a almost brand new camshaft I had out of my other GN. But if they are made across the pond I still have my stockers and like I said They are not concave nor did they make any noise.

Plz lmk what I should do. I had this car apart too long.
Thank you for your input tho. Btw you sell nice products on eBay. I put that o ring between my oil pump and cooler housing on my other GN and no more leak. Nice job!!!!!
 

earlbrown

runs with scissors
#5
I will check in the morning. If they are junk should I put my stock lifters back in?
OH, GOD NO!!!!!!!!


Those things are now scrap metal. After they're ''broken in'', they are married to their exact cam lobe in their exact block. That's it. Mixing them up, changing cams, or changing blocks is a recipe for disaster.
The only way those can safely be reused, is if you knew FOR SURE what hole they came out of, and put the cam they're married to back in your block.


My stock lifters never made and noise. I only replaced the cam because the impulsness set in and the cam and lifters came as a kit. And the instructions said in order to not void your warranty you need to but (and it gave me a list of parts that I needed to buy. Right down to the valve locks or keepers). So I just bought what was on the list.
So what have you bought? I see you got new keepers (nothing wrong with reusing your old ones), was new valve springs on that list or were you planning on running what was there? And, if so, what springs are on your heads now?

If they're original, they needs to be changed yesterday before the can be beat on. On the upside, if you still have the weak stockers, they'll make better 'break in' springs for the new flat tappet cam (then swap in springs with the correct poundage).


But if they are made across the pond I still have my stockers and like I said They are not concave nor did they make any noise.
As far as I know, when it comes to flat tappets, ALL of them are made overseas except the Delphi's which can be identified with the hardened disk.

Plz lmk what I should do. I had this car apart too long.
First, don't get impatient. You're too close to buttoning up your car to shoot yourself in the foot at the last second. There's three places not to mess around with these cars... oiling, head gaskets, and camtrain. Right now, your engine is a grenade with the pin pulled. The pin can be put back in, but you have to do everything PERFECT, PERFECT, PERFECT.




Right now, the first thing to do is to see what you actually have, make a plan for the best chance at success, THEN go from there. No reason to make your brain go back and forth until you know exactly what you've got to work with at the moment.
 
#6
OH, GOD NO!!!!!!!!


Those things are now scrap metal. After they're ''broken in'', they are married to their exact cam lobe in their exact block. That's it. Mixing them up, changing cams, or changing blocks is a recipe for disaster.
The only way those can safely be reused, is if you knew FOR SURE what hole they came out of, and put the cam they're married to back in your block.




So what have you bought? I see you got new keepers (nothing wrong with reusing your old ones), was new valve springs on that list or were you planning on running what was there? And, if so, what springs are on your heads now?

If they're original, they needs to be changed yesterday before the can be beat on. On the upside, if you still have the weak stockers, they'll make better 'break in' springs for the new flat tappet cam (then swap in springs with the correct poundage).




As far as I know, when it comes to flat tappets, ALL of them are made overseas except the Delphi's which can be identified with the hardened disk.



First, don't get impatient. You're too close to buttoning up your car to shoot yourself in the foot at the last second. There's three places not to mess around with these cars... oiling, head gaskets, and camtrain. Right now, your engine is a grenade with the pin pulled. The pin can be put back in, but you have to do everything PERFECT, PERFECT, PERFECT.




Right now, the first thing to do is to see what you actually have, make a plan for the best chance at success, THEN go from there. No reason to make your brain go back and forth until you know exactly what you've got to work with at the moment.
I have the good lifters. Like in the pics.
I bought 980 springs
7869 pushrods
Umbrella valve seals
742 steel retainers
And the valve locks u know about.
But I only bought all that because they said if I used anything other then my stock rocker arms that it would void my warranty.

Im so close to finishing this. It’s all timed and ready for the intake manifold and timing cover to go back on. Oh and I bought their break in oil additive.
 
#7
damn so if I do just my valve springs and replace the stock timing chain should I try to find some of the good lifters as well
very good info thx earl and 87WE4!!
 

earlbrown

runs with scissors
#8
I have the good lifters. Like in the pics.
I bought 980 springs
7869 pushrods
Umbrella valve seals
742 steel retainers
And the valve locks u know about.
But I only bought all that because they said if I used anything other then my stock rocker arms that it would void my warranty.
Umbrella seals? and they require stock rockers only?? Why in the world would they downgrade your seals and force you to stick with less efficient rockers (that have more parasitic loss from drag and heat)?

Also, did you go my oil mods to your cover before getting it ready to reinstall?


damn so if I do just my valve springs and replace the stock timing chain should I try to find some of the good lifters as well
very good info thx earl and 87WE4!!
^No. If you have a good original cam and lifters that aren't flat you can (and need) to change the timing set and springs. Those were made out of good parts (from back when GM had to warranty them) they're work hardened to each other and happy. They're just fine as long as you don't screw with them.
 
#9
Umbrella seals? and they require stock rockers only?? Why in the world would they downgrade your seals and force you to stick with less efficient rockers (that have more parasitic loss from drag and heat)?

Also, did you go my oil mods to your cover before getting it ready to reinstall?




^No. If you have a good original cam and lifters that aren't flat you can (and need) to change the timing set and springs. Those were made out of good parts (from back when GM had to warranty them) they're work hardened to each other and happy. They're just fine as long as you don't screw with them.
780 0r 980 springs motor has 70 K on it
 
#11
Umbrella seals? and they require stock rockers only?? Why in the world would they downgrade your seals and force you to stick with less efficient rockers (that have more parasitic loss from drag and heat)?

Also, did you go my oil mods to your cover before getting it ready to reinstall?




^No. If you have a good original cam and lifters that aren't flat you can (and need) to change the timing set and springs. Those were made out of good parts (from back when GM had to warranty them) they're work hardened to each other and happy. They're just fine as long as you don't screw with them.
No it’s not that I couldn’t upgrade the stock rocker. What I meant is the minimum requirements to keep my warranty on my cam were to purchase all of those parts I listed. I guess I worded it wrong my bad. No if I had disposable income I would have ungraded my rockers too. But I’m only in my late 40s plenty of time for that.

No I didn’t do your mods. Honestly for 2 reasons
1) that’s something that you fabricated and I can’t sleep well at night knowing that I’m stealing your idea without giving you something in return.
2) I actually bought nice new drill bits to do it and some fine sand paper. And I thought what if I F it up and drill too far. Or what if I miss one of those little metal shavings in there. So for both of those reasons my timing cover is soaking in my parts washer since I took it off.
I do have another aftermarket timing cover that is built for the high volume oil pump without the spacer and it came with the full oil pump. that I bought from a local here. But I read what you posted about aftermarket timing covers. So now that one is just a pretty paperweight.
When my financial situation (I just got out of the hospital) improves I will purchase a full timing cover, oil pump, and bolt kit from you. But until then I am just giving the stock cover a deep cleaning, checking my gear lash, and clearance and as long as it’s still in spec pack it with petroleum jelly , maybe hit it with a few coats of engine paint and bolt it up.
 
#14
I made that article years ago for people to use.

Port yours out and throw it back in the parts washer. It's free efficiency with no downsides.
Thank you Earl B. Sorry for the late response I was back in the hospital. I’m ready to finally put this girl back together.

Now, I only watched a video that someone posted on YouTube regarding how to do your porting mod to the stock oil pump and timing cover. I already checked and everything is within spec as far as the oil pump lash and end play goes. So as long as it’s safe to do your mod while using a stock volume oil pump then I would like to go that route. I figured I’ll port, file down the rough spots, drop it in my parts washer and hit it with a few coats of engine paint then throw it all back together. I’ll do a search to see if I can find your original write up. Either way I’ll get it done.
Thank you again!!!