Some of my experience with the Bison alky plate amoung other things.

[bison]

Im very capable of connecting the
Dots.. without displacing fuel with methanol.. and just "the superior" benefits of the plate .. on a car like my customers (TT chipped with a Alky Control setup) .. how much can he expect to gain???

Like said before nothing if you're asking. You would have connected the dots long ago. If you have a way to equalize the flow the target can be leaned and something else can be changed that I won't bother mentioning because it's well beyond the scope of a "chip" tuner". Now increase the pressure, remove gasoline, get more mass flow through the engine. Power will go up. The fuel has to get in the designated cylinder or you will likely fail. Like most do on a chip with 93/alky.


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[turbo89]

Like said before nothing if you're asking. You would have connected the dots long ago. If you have a way to equalize the flow the target can be leaned and something else can be changed that I won't bother mentioning because it's well beyond the scope of a "chip" tuner". Now increase the pressure, remove gasoline, get more mass flow through the engine. Power will go up. The fuel has to get in the designated cylinder or you will likely fail. Like most do on a chip with 93/alky.


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Now we're gettin somewhere..

So are the gains MORE associated with the addition of Methanol as a primary fuel rather than 93, Over the distribution of the actual Meth itself?

BtW thank you for replying and answering my customers ?'s

 

[~JM~]

 

[bison]

Now we're gettin somewhere..

So are the gains MORE associated with the addition of Methanol as a primary fuel rather than 93, Over the distribution of the actual Meth itself?

BtW thank you for replying and answering my customers ?'s

Well if you know where it's going you can be more aggressive with the leaning because you're not compensating for richer cylinders. But you still have to have an idea of what you should target. If you're distributing it more accurately you can increase the flow even more and replace gasoline and pick up even more. However getting it to the primary fuel would be difficult if the engine is moving any appreciable amount of air. Over 40% will give most of the advantages of an alcohol based fuel. How to get to 40%? There are a few ways.


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[seedling]

First off.... F%^k You, you arrogant ignorant sh!#bag! This is a waste of typing..... but maybe someone that isnt a thick skulled arguing f#$tard will learn something!! Real world exp with pre TB nozzles and F$%k your nozzle placement that you think works because you've tried it on WTF ever. No way to defy the laws of physics/g forces.....liquid falling out of vapor state, etc! Lets back up 10 years ago when we were using pre TB and really using the meth on a car deep in the 9's car .....ran perfect on dyno. Blew up at track...egt's showed front cylinders lean. EGT's at dyno showed all good. Theres a point of heavily laden meth charge and a hard launch the intake is NOT designed to flow liquid and or a heavy ass charge and will go to rear of intake. As well as cold amb air ops will do the same when teh temp of air doesnt allow the meth to flash to vapor. This shows itself on higher HP setups and/or hard launches/good 60'. Direct port fixes this...Period.

AND THE WHOLE CONGREGATION SAID; AMEN!!

 

[seedling]

T89....Suggest you tone it down.

^^^^^^^^^^
Based upon some of the responses shown above, I'd have to surmise that, perhaps he didn't hear you??? Just guessing though.

;-)

 

[turbo89]

Well if you know where it's going you can be more aggressive with the leaning because you're not compensating for richer cylinders. But you still have to have an idea of what you should target. If you're distributing it more accurately you can increase the flow even more and replace gasoline and pick up even more. However getting it to the primary fuel would be difficult if the engine is moving any appreciable amount of air. Over 40% will give most of the advantages of an alcohol based fuel. How to get to 40%? There are a few ways.


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So my last questions ... wouldn't we now be relying on the ALKY kit as a fuel source rather than just a knock suppressent / oct adder / IAT reduction agent? .. what if current tuning strategy looks at IAT as a reactive variable.. do i now trash my tune flexibilty? Lastly if we're going as far as displacing fuel with Methanol to gain the power.. and these subsitutions only work on FAST dfi cars , why not just run Methanol as the primary fuel
And gain Even more power? Clearly Only race cars would truly benefit from this methodology ( EGT's required, FAST required, in depth data logging required, ind cyl correction,)

Sorry just trying to explain what base this product applies to as my customer got his answer.. without a FAST its moot

 

[Jerryl]

No. Like Bison said . . .
You are overfueling some cylinders with TB injection while with his kit, you are more equally distributing FUEL. So the AFR reading on a chip car is a better representation of equal cylinder AFR, which will close the EGT gap. Therefore . . . . You can increase mass flow further . . . Or be safer with the same tune, especially when ambient temps drop.

 

[bison]

So my last questions ... wouldn't we now be relying on the ALKY kit as a fuel source rather than just a knock suppressent / oct adder / IAT reduction agent? .. what if current tuning strategy looks at IAT as a reactive variable.. do i now trash my tune flexibilty? Lastly if we're going as far as displacing fuel with Methanol to gain the power.. and these subsitutions only work on FAST dfi cars , why not just run Methanol as the primary fuel
And gain Even more power? Clearly Only race cars would truly benefit from this methodology ( EGT's required, FAST required, in depth data logging required, ind cyl correction,)

Sorry just trying to explain what base this product applies to as my customer got his answer.. without a FAST its moot

I'm not getting into tuning. I'd like to run straight methanol but there are a lot of downsides to that. A chip can be burned to deal with some of the inconsistency of wet flowing the dry flow intake but if you don't know how much alcohol is entering the engine then you can't easily arrive at a good target a/f either. Wouldn't matter what ecu is used .


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[turbo89]

No. Like Bison said . . .
You are overfueling some cylinders with TB injection while with his kit, you are more equally distributing FUEL. So the AFR reading on a chip car is a better representation of equal cylinder AFR, which will close the EGT gap. Therefore . . . . You can increase mass flow further . . . Or be safer with the same tune, especially when ambient temps drop.

How do you figure ... you might control the METH better .. but you sure as hell aren't changing individual cyl airflow differences . If your not Vaporizing the ALKY to begin with.. there are things that need to be looked at .
Your also losing the ability to use IAT as a safety net. and now relying on a ALKY pump as a fuel source ... in a good tuners hands on a race track ???.. IMO still Risky .. why not just make a straight METH switch and take the ALKY system out of the equation and make EVEN MORE POWER .. there is no way in the world a 93 / ALKY car will make as much power as a 100% METH car will .. NO F'N way !

 

[bison]

How do you figure ... you might control the METH better .. but you sure as hell aren't changing individual cyl airflow differences . If your not Vaporizing the ALKY to begin with.. there are things that need to be looked at .
Your also losing the ability to use IAT as a safety net. and now relying on a ALKY pump as a fuel source ... in a good tuners hands on a race track ???.. IMO still Risky .. why not just make a straight METH switch and take the ALKY system out of the equation and make EVEN MORE POWER .. there is no way in the world a 93 / ALKY car will make as much power as a 100% METH car will .. NO F'N way !

Alky pump hiccup? Never seen it. I've seen owners hiccup and forget to fill the reservoir. All I've seen have slowly degraded over time and it's very noticeable if you're logging pressure. I've seen more fuel pumps fail and melt engines than alky pumps. I've seen poor tuning and low fuel levels melt many more times the amount fuel pumps or alky pumps have. Why not make it and market it then? There's no way a methanol engine is starting in cold weather and there's no way you're feeding it with any traditional setups. So any discussion about a chip is a waste with it.


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[bison]

The iat never was used for any safety net on anything I've tuned. Vaporization means zero when the fuel is hitting the ports.


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[Jerryl]

How do you figure ... you might control the METH better .. but you sure as hell aren't changing individual cyl airflow differences . If your not Vaporizing the ALKY to begin with.. there are things that need to be looked at .
Your also losing the ability to use IAT as a safety net. and now relying on a ALKY pump as a fuel source ... in a good tuners hands on a race track ???.. IMO still Risky .. why not just make a straight METH switch and take the ALKY system out of the equation and make EVEN MORE POWER .. there is no way in the world a 93 / ALKY car will make as much power as a 100% METH car will .. NO F'N way !

LMFAO!!
You have once again proven to be a clown . . . incapable of connecting the dots, and accepting change . You just made yourself look worst.

Clearly, I had a serious lapse in judgement even thinking you could have a logical and adult level discussion. I even tried to dumb it down so you could comprehend but, I was wrong and I am done . . .So, . . . .Do, tune, argue all you want. Those with higher than a third grade comprehension will understand what I wrote . . .

 

[turbo89]

The iat never was used for any safety net on anything I've tuned. Vaporization means zero when the fuel is hitting the ports.


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Thank you .. Ive seen and read everything I needed to on the plate and use of it (last 2 posts really sum it up for me) .... we start snowmobiles on Meth so have no idea why a race car couldn't run on 100% pure meth even in colder weather ..


Nigel sorry for taking up the thread with questions .. please post up your results when you get things sorted ... be very educational to many of us.

 

[bison]

Thank you .. Ive seen and read everything I needed to on the plate and use of it (last 2 posts really sum it up for me) .... we start snowmobiles on Meth so have no idea why a race car couldn't run on 100% pure meth even in colder weather ..


Nigel sorry for taking up the thread with questions .. please post up your results when you get things sorted ... be very educational to many of us.

Lol. Race car


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[Nigel]

Just a quick update, speaking of pumps, I - A) have to start logging pressure and B) have to check my pump more often. When I was checking pressure yesterday I did not watch the pump when running. Sprung a leak at the pump head. I just need to get in the habit of putting a fresh pump in every spring and keeping a spare. Feel kinda stupid not staying on top of this. Did not even get to any voltage checks at this point. The voltage on the power logger does check good though. Speaking of alky pumps, does anyone know how Julio faired through the storm? Hope he made out alright. Once I get a new pump I can start things up again.

 

[seedling]

Just a quick update, speaking of pumps, I - A) have to start logging pressure and B) have to check my pump more often. When I was checking pressure yesterday I did not watch the pump when running. Sprung a leak at the pump head. I just need to get in the habit of putting a fresh pump in every spring and keeping a spare. Feel kinda stupid not staying on top of this. Did not even get to any voltage checks at this point. The voltage on the power logger does check good though. Speaking of alky pumps, does anyone know how Julio faired through the storm? Hope he made out alright. Once I get a new pump I can start things up again.

He checked in alright on Facebook. So, he must be safe and sound, he'd almost have to have some clean up to do (at the very least). As we have family all over central Florida and they really got hammered.


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[Nigel]

He checked in alright on Facebook. So, he must be safe and sound, he'd almost have to have some clean up to do (at the very least). As we have family all over central Florida and they really got hammered.


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Good to know, hope your family made out OK.

 

[Pronto]

There's 2 open spots for logging 5v signal sensors with the powerlogger. You can log both the fuel pressure and alky pressure. That would be a good reference point. The test kit is great because aside from finding the max pressure the pump is making, you can turn on the system and leave it running while checking for leaks.
So, I have a question, is a power plate still used or are they eliminated with the direct injection plate?

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Pronto, how does one go about logging alky pressure with the powerlogger. I have all this crap hooked up but dont know how to use any of it. Scanmaster, powerlogger, wideband. It all works great and looks good but i cant seem to get the hang of making any adjustments.