Soft 1-2 Shift Problem

Tim_D

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Hi All, I'm having a problem with the 1-2 upshift on my 2004R. The car doesn't want to shift from first to second whatsoever, at any throttle opening, unless I back off the throttle. This occurs when the car is fully warm mostly, but also to a lesser extent when cold.

As far as car info - the engine and transmission are basically stock '87 GN, transplanted into a 1964 Buick Special. The non-stock items include:

ENGINE
- Adjustable WG actuator, but turbo is delivering stock boost (15psi max)
- TT v5.7 chip set up for 93 octane

TRANSMISSION
- FTI 12" converter, lockup, 2400rpm stall
- Hughes deep pan and (700R4?) filter - I used the filter that came with the pan, in the kit

A little more info:

- Every shift other than 1-2 feels as it should. All are firm, occur at ~ 4800-4900rpm. The lockup happens in 4th around 50-ish mph.
- The car is running taller gears than a GN (3.08). Therefore, it reads a little slower than actual speed. (speedo reads 50mph, actual speed is 58mph)
- I've performed the TV cable adjustment per the known procedure. This did not significantly change the condition.

I'm not too familiar with the 2004R, so forgive me in advance if I need some a little explanation once some responses come in. For example, I've read about sealing on the servo being a possible cause, but I'm not sure the location of it in the trans.

Thanks in advance -
 
The servo is the round thing on the pass side. But by your description you have "tossed" a spring from the governor. This is why people "pin " the governor spring.
If this is your problem you will need to drop the pan, locate the spring in the pan, pull the governor cover and governor down and put the spring in. If you do a search there is a nice thread on how to pin it in the how-to section.
 
might be a geometry problem with tv cable adjustment being a transplant , usually a governor spring problem will affect every gear
 
might be a geometry problem with tv cable adjustment being a transplant , usually a governor spring problem will affect every gear
I'm using the stock TV cable bracket on the intake, stock cable, and stock transmission. See photo -

36701CB0-939E-4FAF-8112-9BC509BDF657_zps1q8hwlfg.jpg
 

You might be having problems with fluid moving away from the pickup and sucking air. Are you running the unit a quart over full?
 

You might be having problems with fluid moving away from the pickup and sucking air. Are you running the unit a quart over full?
I'm not running over-full currently. It's sitting right at the full level on the dipstick, when hot. I wasn't aware of the overfill "trick". That will be the first, easiest thing to try!
 
The stock 2004r filter has its "pickUp" on the top so when aggressively accelerating the fluid can "slosh" away from the pick up. One of the reasons many go to a bottom feeding 700r4 filter. But this can result with other things that need to be done(700 filter is metal and can ground on the switch in the vb causing probs).

I see you are using a deep pan and 700 filter but it can be up high and be sucking air .
Some have an extended pick up and filter to get the pickup down and too the rear of the pan.
 
The stock 2004r filter has its "pickUp" on the top so when aggressively accelerating the fluid can "slosh" away from the pick up. One of the reasons many go to a bottom feeding 700r4 filter. But this can result with other things that need to be done(700 filter is metal and can ground on the switch in the vb causing probs).

I see you are using a deep pan and 700 filter but it can be up high and be sucking air .
Some have an extended pick up and filter to get the pickup down and too the rear of the pan.
This particular issue happens under light throttle as well. For example, it (finally) shifts under light/medium throttle application at ~ 4800rpm. With a heavier throttle, it will shift ~ 5200-5300rpm. I added another quart of fluid this morning, and this did not change the symptoms.

Right now, I'm leaning more towards the governor spring based on feedback so far.
 
BTW, where can I get this spring? I very well may have tossed mine when changing the pan, since I wasn't looking for it at the time..
 
Is this a new problem or has it always been like this since you did the install? One thing you have to remember is the transmission is calibrated for 3.42 gears not 3.08's so the shifts will be a little late.
 
Is this a new problem or has it always been like this since you did the install? One thing you have to remember is the transmission is calibrated for 3.42 gears not 3.08's so the shifts will be a little late.

As far as the difference in gear ratios, I'm fairly certain that this isn't my specific issue. All the other shifts seem to be near the point they should be based on engine rpm.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Well, unfortunately I confirmed today that the governor spring is not the issue...

BD24BD0C-BE95-4645-8A4F-4FA0B3D5EA31_zpso4euyigx.jpg


I took a look at the filter, and its relation to the bottom of the pan. It seems to me to be quite a bit higher than the bottom of the pan (about 3/4" or more at the pickup point, by my estimation).

7135E7A0-48E3-4488-9527-88C19603D036_zpswjgusxin.jpg


FF76B5A2-30BE-4A25-A9F9-97CFB34CAD70_zpsz1c4ogdn.jpg


I know the oil pump pickup on an engine places the pickup very close to the pan bottom (within about 1/4"). I wonder if this is the issue? I am using the filter and parts that came with the Hughes pan, so I'd be surprised if this were the issue.

Aside from these things, are there maybe some hard parts problems? I've read that the band that controls 2nd gear has a habit of going bad.

I guess I'm concerned that my trans needs to be gone through. If so, I've just lost the season.. :(
 
It is quite possible that I am mistaking a soft 1-2 shift with a non-existent 2nd gear. It may very well be going directly from 1st to 3rd.

With that, I've found a thread on another site that seems to describe exactly my symptoms. See link below -

200-4R Similar Issues Thread

Assuming this is my issue (broken anchor pin and subsequent burning of the band), I'm assuming the trans needs to come out for this? If so, I'll remove it and take it to a shop. Before I do that, I'll speak to the shop, describe my issues/symptoms, and get his advice as well.

Thanks so far. If anyone has any follow up comments I'd appreciate it. I'll add comments as they become available as well -
 
Don't take it to just any shop. This is a good way to loose the brf specific vb and governor. If you think the pin has broken or possibly the anchor on the band has pulled out, you can find a way to put leverage on the servo and see just how far it moves in while in the car. If it goes much over 1/8" id have to concur on the band problem. Guys have been given back junk from a shop that doesn't know the 2004r and swaps in parts and it spirals down from there.
 
Last edited:
It is quite possible that I am mistaking a soft 1-2 shift with a non-existent 2nd gear. It may very well be going directly from 1st to 3rd.

With that, I've found a thread on another site that seems to describe exactly my symptoms. See link below -

200-4R Similar Issues Thread

Assuming this is my issue (broken anchor pin and subsequent burning of the band), I'm assuming the trans needs to come out for this? If so, I'll remove it and take it to a shop. Before I do that, I'll speak to the shop, describe my issues/symptoms, and get his advice as well.

Thanks so far. If anyone has any follow up comments I'd appreciate it. I'll add comments as they become available as well -

You're using a stock 200-4R filter. Swap to a 700-R4 filter. The inlet is on the bottom. It gives you a half an inch more submersion.

That said, you've probably lost the second gear band. You've already checked all the obvious things that can be checked without pulling the transmission apart. What you're describing is indeed very much like a burned up second. You're revving until you get above ~35, back off, and it goes straight into third.

Time to pull it. But if you want to be sure, here's the factory manual:

http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/TH2004R.pdf

The troubleshooting is pretty straightforward, especially if you can get a pressure gauge on the line tap.
 
You're using a stock 200-4R filter. Swap to a 700-R4 filter. The inlet is on the bottom. It gives you a half an inch more submersion.

That said, you've probably lost the second gear band. You've already checked all the obvious things that can be checked without pulling the transmission apart. What you're describing is indeed very much like a burned up second. You're revving until you get above ~35, back off, and it goes straight into third.

The filter DOES have the inlet facing down. The filter came with the Hughes trans pan as a kit. So I think I'm OK there.

So I checked around and found a good builder in my area. After explaining the symptoms, and looking at a fluid sample, he's pretty sure it's a second gear band as well. I didn't notice the fluid coloring difference, until it was compared with fresh.

As far as the cause of the issue, another user PM'd me and noticed that the sheathing on the TV cable was close to all the way out. Although I used the procedure outlined elsewhere on this site to adjust, I've just noticed that the pedal is coming up a little short of full throttle activation. Do you all think that the TV cable adjustment may be the root cause? See comparison photos below (first photo has me holding WOT by hand, the second is the most "wide open" that the pedal to the floor permits).

714B1CB3-6A7D-4FF3-AE19-309B57AAD01E_zpsdmkyo6r1.jpg


D128760E-B4C0-4F4B-9462-48DB9DC1E4A1_zpsaooibrt4.jpg
 
Incorrect TV adjustment can cause a low pressure situation and burn the band.

The drum has to completely stop when going from 1-2, then it spins in the opposite direction. So if you don’t have enough apply pressure on the band, it wears quickly.
 
So tell me about TV adjustment and low pressure... An incorrect adjustment in which direction will cause low pressure? Does the photo above support this (with the cable housing showing so many ridges?
 
So tell me about TV adjustment and low pressure... An incorrect adjustment in which direction will cause low pressure? Does the photo above support this (with the cable housing showing so many ridges?


NO... where it comes out under the vac line
 
Top