Rebuilding a TH2004R. Is it possible....?

We have a company that comes around called superkleen and changes and refills the fluid in the washer.

I have also used mineral spirits (as mentioned) , the various solvents sold at various places for parts washers and kerosene.
 
Metal Low/Reverse Tool>> GM Lo-Reverse Clutch Remover Installer #2843: eBay Motors (item 170279815039 end time Sep-07-10 18:48:00 PDT)

I have one like these, Plastic>> j28542 items - Get great deals on Parts Accessories items on eBay Motors! but I think the metal one works better & is more durable.

If you search for Tools in the Trans section you'll find several threads with other tools also.

Tool arrived today. This ebayer provided fast reasonable shipping. 9 days from payment to receiving tool in New Zealand! Outstanding!
 
Pump Pics

Here's a pic of the pump pocket. I've yet to pull the slide out so I can give the scored face a quick polish with emery so the deep scores, if any, are evident. Can't really catch my nail on anything even though it looks like you could. More pics as soon as this is done.

<a href="http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc424/69mchaggis69/?action=view&current=P1000666.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc424/69mchaggis69/P1000666.jpg" border="0" alt="Pump Pocket"></a>
 
Hi guys. I've had to let life get in the way of this project but I'm trying to get back to it as time allows. So a quick up-date.....

I ended up pulling another trans apart to see what parts I could score out of it but the output shaft snap ring failed and let the back end go. I can't get the front carrier assembly off the output shaft spline so I'm not having much luck getting it apart. Most of the back end looks to be junk so I'm not sure if its worth the time trying.

The direct drum out of the 1st trans had a ring cavity in the bore so it's junk. The 2nd one, pictured below, is also junk. These marks seem to have been caused by water??? It looks like the trans was water blasted, water got into it and its been sitting around for ages. The pump also has signs of corrosion and the servo was full or oily water too.

direct.jpg


I'm now looking to buy a pump assembly complete with all the necessary mods and parts and a new direct drum. The front planetary I have out of the 1st trans seems to have too much end play, up to 0.037", and its the same for the rear one. I guess this is too much? Can they be rebuilt easily or it is best to replace them?
 
Chris's manual recommends .003"-.024" end play.
You need to check the Teeth for chips, blueing & wear.
Pinion gears, Needle bearings & Axle Pins for wear, should turn smooth but "No wiggle movement".
Carrier splines for wear, .003"-.015" wiggle clearance on Output Shaft. Probably best to just replace unless you want to rebuild.
 
McHaggis , don`t feel alone .I too am in new zealand .Now I am aware you are looking for a 200 4r mine is going into a secure vault .
And yes , you guys are magnanimous with all your info. My fellow kiwi, McHaggis will confirm the scary opinions offered downunder re these trans .

Here is a rebuild kit I was looking at .I am repowering a cadillac with a 66 toro motor --with a few goodies --expecting around 430 to 460 hp What do you think ?
Complete description of parts in the rebuild kit.

"Front Pump"
Seal retainer
Seal, late design
Teflon bushing, late design
10-vane rotor w/vanes & slide assembly
Steel rings & priming spring (Trans-Go) above or below 5,500 rpm WOT shifts, please specify
Pressure regulator valve, (Heavy duty)
Intermediate/reverse boost valve, (.296)
Main boost valve, (.500)
Stator support (Hardened)

"Clutches, Steels And Pressure Plates"
3 Overdrive clutches, Borg-Warner .080
3 Overdrive steels .080
2 Overrun clutches, Borg-Warner .080
2 Overrun steels .080
8 Direct clutches, Alto Red Eagle .060
6 Direct steels Kolene .077
2 Direct steels Kolene .060
1 Direct pressure plate .175
4 Forward clutches (Hi-Static), Borg-Warner .080
3 Forward steels .077
1 Forward steel, waved .060
6 Low/reverse clutches, Borg-Warner .078
7 Low/reverse steels .076

Sun shell (Hardened)
Overdrive roller sprag, Borg-Warner
Low/reverse roller sprag, Borg-Warner
Bushing kit, with 3 teflon bushings
Thrust washer kit
Bearing kit
Trans-Go "modified" Shift kit (This kit will not harm GN valve bodies) with new 4th accumulator piston and oem accumulator pin
Transmission filter
Sealing ring set, cast iron & updated teflon
2nd gear band, Alto extra wide Red lined or Black carbon lined
Paper & rubber (Gasket) set
Rear seal, 3 Lip Vamac
Pan magnet

0%




Details


Part Number RKSS2004R2
Price: $443.07
 
Up-date

Quick up-date....
Have finally decided not to purchase another 2004R core as I'm probably wasting more money anyway. I'm now waiting for a cost for the necessary parts I'll need to rebuild the first trans. The second one wasn't looking too great once I managed to wrench the back end out of it. Ended up making a fitting for my slide hammer so I could get the front carrier assm, sun gear & shell, etc, out as they were intent on staying put. The mess I found once the lo reverse housing was out kind of convinced me there wasn't much to salvage here... Of course, the noise of shrapnel rolling around whenever I moved the trans sort of gave it away. ;)

P1010636.jpg
P1010635.jpg


So I'm now having to buy a complete pump with all the mods, etc, completed, as the two I have are a bit scored and one is water damaged, a new direct drum and a new front carrier along with all the other "normal" bits to make this live again. I'm beginning to worry that it might be cheaper and easier to buy a complete performance trans off one the vendors here but I'm still keen to do this myself.

Will keep you lot posted as this moves forward.
 
Being located in Germany i'm exactly in the same situation like you. I managed to find a working and stock condition 2004R and at forst i was thinking to get the rebuild kits and few hard parts from CK to save shipping cost and taxes. But as i have never done it before I chickened out and now I'm too scared to try it. After seing the shrapnel in your tranny i'm even more scared!:biggrin: Now i'm trying to find a good package deal and a way of shipping it over here, DB Schenker Door to-airport seems reasonable.

Good luck on your rebuild!

Olli
 
Have a go at rebuilding your own. The guys on here are a huge help and with the advice freely given by them you'll be ok. I'm getting a custom kit for my rebuild so I get all the parts, including hard parts, that I need without paying for extra parts and shipping for unnecessary ones. Pick a willing, helpful vendor and go for it!
 
I'm going to attempt my 1st trans build myself here as well.
So far I called Chris @ CK and got the following.

1. MASTER REBUILD KIT #24RRK/C $449.00
2. E4340 STEEL BILLET SHAFT FORWARD DRUM #24RCC/BFD $349.00
3. 200-4R Performance Rebuild Manual


I also bought the DVD to help me rebuild it from BoxWrench
General Motors Turbo Hydramatic 200-4R Automatic Transmission Rebuild DVD Video

Jake told me to pick up a Super Servo or CK Servo and I think I still have to get a 10 vane pump.
Got a 200-4R core for $50 , and I'm going to break it down and inspect it as advised by
the video tutorial so I know what I'm looking at for further needs.

Thanks to all the vendors and members for taking the time to document the information,
because for starters, you can't even find Chris @ CK's manual on his website without the
secret squirrel link on forum. :confused:
 
OK, well I had to join the site.

Not to hijack the original poster's thread, but I'm also one of the adventurous guys who wants to rebuild their 200 4r. I've had my OG version for 4-5 years, it's condition unknown until recently, when I pulled it from storage.
Armed with the ASTG manual, a rebuilding DVD, and numerous articles that are either stored on my PC or printed and filed in a 3 ring binder, I began some preliminary disassembly. I'll use this forum to assist me in selecting the right parts to put this tranny behind my '70 Chevelle's small block, which is also still being evaluated and designed for a street and highway cruiser. Thanks to all of you for your wisdom and experience!
 
Update

Parts have been ordered!

After a bit (maybe Lots!) of sorting I've ordered enough parts to complete this rebuild.
Having bought two cores and ending up with many of the same hard parts damaged I had to get a new GM pump (modified and assembled with all the necessary bits), a rebuilt direct drum and a billet shaft forward drum. A paper & rubber rebuild kit, carbon band and billet anchor pin, Superior servo (used), new lock-up solenoid, rear sprag, 309 separator plate, VB springs, valves, etc, steels and a mix of BW and Red Metallic frictions complete the internals!

These parts are now in a container about to leave LA so I hope to see them in about 4 weeks.

David Husek has spent many hours sorting this for me and a fair amount of time on the phone too to make sure I end up with all the parts I need. I am grateful to him for this and I wish to thank him here for all of his help and advice.

Next is the TC. Dave has one semi sorted but I'm undecided after reading Turbo Nasty's thread on the subject. The car will see 99% street and 1% track at best as the nearest strip is 350 miles away. I'm currently going to go lock-up with about a 3200 - 3500 stall. I know there are many threads on this subject here but this is not for a turbo V6. The trans is going behind a 430hp 355 Chev in a '69 AMC Javelin.
Thoughts?
 
Just a suggestion:

It occurred to me a while back that a website like this could very much use a "Communication" venue, such as "Teamspeak", or "Ventrilio", maybe even Skype??.
I use both TS & Vent during online racing, both work great and as long as idiots aren't allowed access(kiddies trying to avoid growing up) by use of password access, many "rooms" can be created for use.
I believe this site has the ability to organize just such an offering, but like many things in our lives, "Stuff" cost's money these day's and finding people with available time to moderate would be another issue.
But I think it a great idea especially for helping our members from other areas, being able to help 1 one 1 with the ability to send pictures/information and get each other up and running, much easier to do with web cams and verbal conformation when available.
Good luck,

Kevin.
 
"just a suggestion"..

It occurred to me a while back that a website like this could very much use a "Communication" venue, such as "Teamspeak", or "Ventrilio", maybe even Skype??.
I use both TS & Vent during online racing, both work great and as long as idiots aren't allowed access(kiddies trying to avoid growing up) by use of password access, many "rooms" can be created for use.
I believe this site has the ability to organize just such an offering, but like many things in our lives, "Stuff" cost's money these day's and finding people with available time to moderate would be another issue.
But I think it a great idea especially for helping our members from other areas, being able to help 1 one 1 with the ability to send pictures/information and get each other up and running, much easier to do with web cams and verbal conformation when available.
Good luck,

Kevin.

That is a good idea. I will need some specific assistance with certain subassemblies in my trans rebuild, and your suggestion would be a good way to get the answers I'm looking for.
 
Next is the TC. Dave has one semi sorted but I'm undecided after reading Turbo Nasty's thread on the subject. The car will see 99% street and 1% track at best as the nearest strip is 350 miles away. I'm currently going to go lock-up with about a 3200 - 3500 stall. I know there are many threads on this subject here but this is not for a turbo V6. The trans is going behind a 430hp 355 Chev in a '69 AMC Javelin.

Thoughts?

Anyone? I know most of you are turbo guys but there must be a few out there like me that are on here for the great advice and help for our non-Turbo Buick rides.
 
A very late update...............

YES! It is possible. Lots of issues and changes but it's been together for several years now and it's still going great. Changing to this trans along with a change from 2.87 to 3.73 gears and a 3600 stall LU converter has completely changed my car. It is the best improvement I have done to this car in the 29 years I've had it. And there have been lots.

Some of the issues I had and the solutions.......

Too much pump pressure. This was with a .537?? and a .34? boost valve combo. This broke the pressure relief spring causing a loud buzzing in 1st & 2nd over 3000rpm. I re-installed the original spring but also installed a spacer between the spring and the dowel to increase the spring pressure. I use a 7 vane setup with hardened rings.
I ended up with the new style PR valve with the spring Dave supplied with the .500 & .296 boost valves. This combo was a little bit down on pressure so I installed a washer in the PR valve set-up to increase spring pressure. Now it's perfect.
NOTE: There are as far as I know 2 styles of PR valves. The spring seat on these are at different heights so the wrong spring on the wrong valve will result in either low pressure or very high pressure.

It shifted too early so I removed weight from the governor but this had little effect as low speed. I ended up replacing the springs in the 1-2 & 2-3 shift valves with stiffer springs. This worked nicely.
The up-shifts in drive are still too early, about 4500, and this is a KC4 VB so I'm not sure why. I usually manually shift when I'm racing so it's not a big problem for me.
One thing I did have to do after I pinned the governor spring in place was to re-install the plastic spring seat for it as the spring flew out twice. I ended up with the purple spring on the secondary weight (it's about 13 grams) with about 5-7 coils cut off it to retain a similar pressure to what it was without the spring seat. The spring has now remained in place for several years.

I had a pump slide break at the pivot point which caused very low pressure. I managed to limp home without damage so I was lucky. Dave supplied me a 2nd hand slide and all good again.

I originally used the Superior Servo with the wide carbon band but didn't like it so I changed to the Sonnax one. This worked way better but at very light throttle and low speed it clunks loudly when it changes into 3rd. At moderate throttle in quiet.

I dual feed the Directs and changed to the billet direct piston as is recommended along with other changes to correct shift timing as instructed to by Dave. Works great.

I used Raybestos Stage 1 frictions in the Direct & OD packs (with the extra friction in the OD) and the BW in the rest.

All the clearances were set to the tighter side of the range as much as possible.

I went with one of Dave's 9.5" billet LU Converter that Joe supplied him. This is the one with 3200 stall behind a V6 but mine stalls about 3600 behind a 350 chev. I use a home made control box to lock it and got carried away, but it works fantastically! I use 2 vacuum switches, a RPM window switch, a timer and several relays. This will only let it lock if I'm at low throttle (high vacuum), in 4th and above 2000 rpm. Once these conditions are met it starts the timer then locks after 4 seconds. This stops it locking until I'm in a steady throttle/speed state. The second vacuum switch is the low vacuum switch. Once the vacuum is lower than this switch the converter unlocks. This allows light to moderate acceleration with the converter locked with makes for great driving. A bit more throttle, the vacuum drops and the converter unlocks. This stops detonation in my set-up.

So after several year of thrashing this trans I'm more than happy with it. So It is possible to build a TH2004R, at home and make it live BUT, in my case, only with the help and parts supplied by Dave Husek. And after many many phone calls and emails.

Thank You Dave!
 
That is awesome you got it built, in and working. David H. Is a great asset , and so are the other contributors and sponsors of our board .

How about some pix of your ride.
 
So I was reading this and just saw you sta
A very late update...............

YES! It is possible. Lots of issues and changes but it's been together for several years now and it's still going great. Changing to this trans along with a change from 2.87 to 3.73 gears and a 3600 stall LU converter has completely changed my car. It is the best improvement I have done to this car in the 29 years I've had it. And there have been lots.

Some of the issues I had and the solutions.......

Too much pump pressure. This was with a .537?? and a .34? boost valve combo. This broke the pressure relief spring causing a loud buzzing in 1st & 2nd over 3000rpm. I re-installed the original spring but also installed a spacer between the spring and the dowel to increase the spring pressure. I use a 7 vane setup with hardened rings.
I ended up with the new style PR valve with the spring Dave supplied with the .500 & .296 boost valves. This combo was a little bit down on pressure so I installed a washer in the PR valve set-up to increase spring pressure. Now it's perfect.
NOTE: There are as far as I know 2 styles of PR valves. The spring seat on these are at different heights so the wrong spring on the wrong valve will result in either low pressure or very high pressure.

It shifted too early so I removed weight from the governor but this had little effect as low speed. I ended up replacing the springs in the 1-2 & 2-3 shift valves with stiffer springs. This worked nicely.
The up-shifts in drive are still too early, about 4500, and this is a KC4 VB so I'm not sure why. I usually manually shift when I'm racing so it's not a big problem for me.
One thing I did have to do after I pinned the governor spring in place was to re-install the plastic spring seat for it as the spring flew out twice. I ended up with the purple spring on the secondary weight (it's about 13 grams) with about 5-7 coils cut off it to retain a similar pressure to what it was without the spring seat. The spring has now remained in place for several years.

I had a pump slide break at the pivot point which caused very low pressure. I managed to limp home without damage so I was lucky. Dave supplied me a 2nd hand slide and all good again.

I originally used the Superior Servo with the wide carbon band but didn't like it so I changed to the Sonnax one. This worked way better but at very light throttle and low speed it clunks loudly when it changes into 3rd. At moderate throttle in quiet.

I dual feed the Directs and changed to the billet direct piston as is recommended along with other changes to correct shift timing as instructed to by Dave. Works great.

I used Raybestos Stage 1 frictions in the Direct & OD packs (with the extra friction in the OD) and the BW in the rest.

All the clearances were set to the tighter side of the range as much as possible.

I went with one of Dave's 9.5" billet LU Converter that Joe supplied him. This is the one with 3200 stall behind a V6 but mine stalls about 3600 behind a 350 chev. I use a home made control box to lock it and got carried away, but it works fantastically! I use 2 vacuum switches, a RPM window switch, a timer and several relays. This will only let it lock if I'm at low throttle (high vacuum), in 4th and above 2000 rpm. Once these conditions are met it starts the timer then locks after 4 seconds. This stops it locking until I'm in a steady throttle/speed state. The second vacuum switch is the low vacuum switch. Once the vacuum is lower than this switch the converter unlocks. This allows light to moderate acceleration with the converter locked with makes for great driving. A bit more throttle, the vacuum drops and the converter unlocks. This stops detonation in my set-up.

So after several year of thrashing this trans I'm more than happy with it. So It is possible to build a TH2004R, at home and make it live BUT, in my case, only with the help and parts supplied by Dave Husek. And after many many phone calls and emails.

Thank You Dave!
I just saw this post started years ago , a thumbs up to your project
 
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