Real 1000 Hp Engine builders?

[SS/GN]

I did not want to hi-jack the other thread.It seems when people want to make serious HP everyone wants to go the LS engine route I understand why but these cars are different because they are V6.So my question to some of the experts is why don't more guys build a V6 with the T/A all alum block and supporting headsIs this a better combination than the older stage I and II stuffWhen you get to 800 plus HP it is expensive no matter what you buildJust a thought

Kevin

 

[Grumpy]

Because most guys have NO idea how much speed costs. Most Buick guys want to make a 109 block with 1k HP for $5k.

 

[SS/GN]

Because most guys have NO idea how much speed costs. Most Buick guys want to make a 109 block with 1k HP for $5k.

Ya but the real serious ones that are building real HPwhy don't they use the T/A alum block as a foundationWhen you get to that level I would think the cost of a LS to a Buick would be similar

Kevin

 

[V8Assassin]

Depending on the type of LS build, and there are plenty ranging from a stock 6.0 truck block to an all out Warhawk LSx block, the TA would be more to build. Again just compare block, internals, head, intake, and plumbing cost with the actual parts you would use and see what the difference is.

With that said, LS motors are more expensive than SBC motors to build and there are plenty SBC making tons of hp. Parts are relatively inexpensive for them and builders aren't too hard to find.

 

[Adam Connell]

To end the LSX cost debate... NO it is no where near similar cost. Same for a BBC or SBC. The V8 will always be a better deal at that power level, but it does not make it the right thing to do to these cars.

The difference is what you have to buy to make the power... the stock LSX stuff is good enough at this level, where as none of the stock buick parts are going to hold up for very long.

The real question that keeps coming to my mind: Who the hell NEEDS 1,000hp? I've got plenty of friends with very deep wallets running some very high HP street cars, but all of the DD cars are less than 5-600hp... one friend comes to mind. He's got a nice little 1100hp 04 Zo6, but he never takes it out... it's no fun at that level. Even his normal "fun" car is pushing less than 500, because that's about all that's usable on the street... I've seen more highway racing than any person should, and I can tell you first hand it's no fun to get on it hard at 80mph and still spin uncontrollably. It may sound like fun, but in reality high HP street builds are a curse. Unless you're running the mile events like these guys do... it's just useless.

If you want 1000+hp build a monster truck... MUCH more fun IMO!

 

[Pronto]

If I remember correctly I think toofastforyou had a TA engine but now has a StageII. Maybe you could PM him and see what his experience was. I never asked.

 

[SS/GN]

Depending on the type of LS build, and there are plenty ranging from a stock 6.0 truck block to an all out Warhawk LSx block, the TA would be more to build. Again just compare block, internals, head, intake, and plumbing cost with the actual parts you would use and see what the difference is.

With that said, LS motors are more expensive than SBC motors to build and there are plenty SBC making tons of hp. Parts are relatively inexpensive for them and builders aren't too hard to find

So a LSX warlock is alot cheaper than the T/A alum block build?I agree with the old gen SB.I was just curious about the T/A engine VS the LS.Not trying to start a mud slingin debate.Just curious in the cost /effect.Thanks for the input:biggrin:

Kevin

 

[we4Mateo]

My builder has had bad experiences with TA motors on the street. They all seem to need a vacuum pump. Long story short, he's putting his stage II motor back in one car to use it more on the street and a stage I block in his wife's car. They both ran 109s before with great success and just haven't had it with the TA blocks yet. Great on the strip though. It goes back to the question: What do you really want? They both run low boost setups on the street anyway ie: 25psi or less, 35psi at the strip only...requires pedaling on the street at any boost level it seems

 

[3.8vsix]

My builder has had bad experiences with TA motors on the street. They all seem to need a vacuum pump. Long story short, he's putting his stage II motor back in one car to use it more on the street and a stage I block in his wife's car. They both ran 109s before with great success and just haven't had it with the TA blocks yet. Great on the strip though. It goes back to the question: What do you really want? They both run low boost setups on the street anyway ie: 25psi or less, 35psi at the strip only...requires pedaling on the street at any boost level it seems

I have about 10K of mostly street miles on my TA block and no vacuum pump and have had no problems!

 

[V8Assassin]

Depending on the type of LS build, and there are plenty ranging from a stock 6.0 truck block to an all out Warhawk LSx block, the TA would be more to build. Again just compare block, internals, head, intake, and plumbing cost with the actual parts you would use and see what the difference is.

With that said, LS motors are more expensive than SBC motors to build and there are plenty SBC making tons of hp. Parts are relatively inexpensive for them and builders aren't too hard to find

So a LSX warlock is alot cheaper than the T/A alum block build?I agree with the old gen SB.I was just curious about the T/A engine VS the LS.Not trying to start a mud slingin debate.Just curious in the cost /effect.Thanks for the input:biggrin:

Kevin

TA block is 4k

The Warhawk LSx block is 4.5k, this thing is made to handle a ton of power, not needed whatsoever for a street build. Would be wasted money on something not intended for serious track use IMO.

 

[Nick Micale]

My builder has had bad experiences with TA motors on the street. They all seem to need a vacuum pump. Long story short, he's putting his stage II motor back in one car to use it more on the street and a stage I block in his wife's car.................

Then I would suggest you find another engine builder? [See above post from Travis as an example!]

We have done as many street builds as strip builds with the TA block, and never have had that problem when done right. The TA block is built to Stage II specs, but stronger.

The TA block has developed over 1500 HP on the dyno.

To answer the original post, at the 1000 HP level, the LS or Buick engine build would cost about the same because none of the stock LS internals will live at that level either.

 

[we4Mateo]

My builder has had bad experiences with TA motors on the street. They all seem to need a vacuum pump. Long story short, he's putting his stage II motor back in one car to use it more on the street and a stage I block in his wife's car.................

Then I would suggest you find another engine builder? [See above post from Travis as an example!]

We have done as many street builds as strip builds with the TA block, and never have had that problem when done right. The TA block is built to Stage II specs, but stronger.

The TA block has developed over 1500 HP on the dyno.

To answer the original post, at the 1000 HP level, the LS or Buick engine build would cost about the same because none of the stock LS internals will live at that level either.

He does need a new machinist. He said he heard b/c of the aluminum expansion that you needed to set up the main and rods at .001, is that true?

 

[Adam Connell]

To answer the original post, at the 1000 HP level, the LS or Buick engine build would cost about the same because none of the stock LS internals will live at that level either.

Sorry Nick, that statement just is not true. It's hard to believe, but yes the the stock LS internals can and will live for quite a long time IF the tuner does it right... LS1tech is being a bitch right now, but there is a dude on there who has well over 80 1300+fwhp on a stock Lq4 Long block. Sounds like complete BS, but the LSX stuff is nothing to laugh at. There are a hand full of junkyard 5.3s and 6.0s deep in the single digits. I think the current record for a stock 5.3 is 8.98 @ 154mph... I think the guy goes by "Skinnies" these are $500 motors out of junk yards, no rebuild.

Then again there are people that seem to be able to nuke their stock N/A LS2s...

Im still not a proponent of slapping in a V8 into a perfectly good GN or TR... they deserve a V6, but that translates into $$$$ pretty quickly. Let's just this GN engine has been babied more than any other engine I've ever owned because I dont want to see the bill for the rebuild.

We started a blown injected 509ci BBC that should make 13-1400fwhp tonight that will last several years in a monster truck and it cost a wopping $9,800(minus injection/blower). I've heard of people going cheaper and keeping a backup motor, but the fact is you cant do that with a V6 for that money... The turbo V6 has a pretty high dollar to HP ratio.

 

[Pronto]

There are a hand full of junkyard 5.3s and 6.0s deep in the single digits. I think the current record for a stock 5.3 is 8.98 @ 154mph... I think the guy goes by "Skinnies" these are $500 motors out of junk yards, no rebuild.

A friend of V8Killer did a junkyard 6.0 70mm turbo in a 89 Chevy PU. I think it had larger cam and some light head work. He had alky too. I saw it first time out on a very bad tune and bad drag radials it ran 11.7 at something like 122. He didn't have good handle on the pcm and something goofed up and it leaned out the engine and melted it. Put another 6.0 in it and ran it again but I don't remember what it did. It was very budget build, really just an experiment.

 

[turbobuick]

We started a blown injected 509ci BBC that should make 13-1400fwhp tonight that will last several years in a monster truck and it cost a wopping $9,800(minus injection/blower). I've heard of people going cheaper and keeping a backup motor, but the fact is you cant do that with a V6 for that money... The turbo V6 has a pretty high dollar to HP ratio.

Long block alone I had less than that in the motor I ran for the times in my sig.

 

[HOT ROD-GN]

If I remember correctly I think toofastforyou had a TA engine but now has a StageII. Maybe you could PM him and see what his experience was. I never asked.

yes he did , but the motor was never in stall.

 

[Reggie West]

I did not want to hi-jack the other thread.It seems when people want to make serious HP everyone wants to go the LS engine route I understand why but these cars are different because they are V6.So my question to some of the experts is why don't more guys build a V6 with the T/A all alum block and supporting headsIs this a better combination than the older stage I and II stuffWhen you get to 800 plus HP it is expensive no matter what you buildJust a thought

Kevin

Kevin to answer your question about a TA block versus Stage 1 and 2 blocks, yes it is better to go to a TA block. Stage blocks crack. I have seen S1 blocks crack in the lifter valley, I have seen S2 blocks crack and drop freeze plugs. The TA blocks work very well. Anyone that has had issues with them did not pay close attention to the details when building the motor. There are some areas you have to pay attention to that is all.

There will always be the argument that you can run an LS motor in these cars and it will be cheaper. The same has been said for the great stock block versus TA debate as well. In the end it boils down to this. You can go cheap on whichever motor you like v6 or v8. If you do, it will work for a while but sooner or later it will break and you are out the time and money to repair the motor and spend the same amount of money and twice the amount of time.

If you have a GN or Ttype the reason you bought it in the first place is a little v6 can whoop most things on the street. I would say stick with the v6.

I have asked some good builders what it would take to make a 6.0 liter motor live at 900 hp. They told me forged pistons and rods, the stock crank was good to 900 after that you need a forged crank as well. No matter which motor you choose, you still have head work to do. You will have to fab up headers and down pipes, a turbo, intercooler,beef up the injectors, tune the ECM and let's not forget a trans that will hold up to the power.

In my opinion, if there is a difference in price between them its not much. Choose your poison.

 

[SS/GN]

Wow great thread, I was more concerned about the T/A block compared to the older stage stuff and that question was answered.I believe the LS stuff will not live in high HP any better than any other engine would.Their is always that guy that nows someone that does,but as said eventually it will brake I don"t want this thread to be a debate on the 2 as they all will work.I think if I did it it would be the T/A as I like the V6 in these cars better,now if I was building a C5 corvette....different storyThanks for all the input great ideas and opinions


Kevin:biggrin:

 

[Pronto]

yes he did , but the motor was never in stall.

Ah, I just remember Jack and Claude talking a trade or something. I didn't know the engine wasn't in the car.:smile:

Personally I think the TA engine would be a huge step in strength, even for a street car. I thought I heard whispers of an iron block remake of the StageII by someone else. Guess that never came to frutition.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

So OP, is the question why don't more members build 1k HP blocks in general, or those that do build them, us the Stage II block more often?
1) Because no one here has the cubic $ or need for a 1k engine.
2) The Stage II block has been around longer so it's % of builds are going to be higher vs the TA.

Either way, you're talking about a select few and Nick is your guy if you want to go TA and 1k HP, Dan at DLS is another very respected big HP guy.

Why not just call either or both of them and go from there, these threads can get ugly pretty quickly.