powermaster

Pm

Your life is hanging by a fuse... When it blows you have no warnings. GM shouldve recalled all of them and replaced the brake set up with a better system... I already converted one of my Trs and the other needs it to. If the car is low miles and sit for a period the electric motor freezes up and then burns up. GM really sucks ..
 
Texas Terror, if you actually drive your car, yes you would be smarter and better off to convert over to either vacuum or hydroboost. As pointed out when the 30 amp fuse pops (when the motor shorts out) you have ZERO warning that the inevitable about to happen...until you go to apply the brakes and you have nothing but a rock hard pedal. Now think if a small child or another motorists or whatever happened to dart out in the road and you had to suddenly stop. Not to mention some of the parts of the powermaster cost as much as an almost complete vacuum brake system. The powermaster itself is also very expensive, you will nickle and dime yourself everytime you have to fix it, especially if it's been neglected over the years. There's a reason why they were only avaliable for 2 years never to be used again. Oh yeah, did I also mention some of the parts for the powermaster are no longer procurable? IMO the only time it's smart to keep the powermaster is if the car is a trailer queen.
 
my power master motor runs continuosly after I depresurize the system with the ignition on, brake light stays on. is my motor/pump bad on the power master unit? car sat in storage for a few years, I have a new PM unit on with less than 1000k miles on it?!?!
 
my power master motor runs continuosly after I depresurize the system with the ignition on, brake light stays on. is my motor/pump bad on the power master unit? car sat in storage for a few years, I have a new PM unit on with less than 1000k miles on it?!?!

Bad accumulator, pressure switch, or internal leak in the master cylinder....
 
My guess would be the accumulator. They seem to go bad just from sitting. When I bought my 86 GN (about 4 years ago) with 25,000 miles on it, the accumulator was bad. Richard Clark tests them for Kirban. Maybe he can test yours before you buy a new one.
 
Here is my advice from hard lessons learned, the powermaster is a deathtrap waiting to happen. No warning when it go's out and you have to almost break the pedal to stop the car when it happens. Mine did it coming up to dead end with a 15+ foot drop off with nothing to stop you but a little sign. Thank GOD I was able to stop it. I know you want to keep it stock but its not worth the risk to you or your family if they are in the car ! Take it off and bag it, you can always put it back on to make it stock. This can easily be undone man. I put hydroboost on my car, the diffrence is staggering. I can put you thur the window now, hold more boost, etc. It makes the pedal harder but when you mash it you KNOW you better be braced to keep your face off the windshield. The fastest car in the world is nothing but junk if you can't stop it ! Daniel Ray
 
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Here is my advice from hard lessons learned, the powermaster is a deathtrap waiting to happen. No warning when it go's out and you have to almost break the pedal to stop the car when it happens. Mine did it coming up to dead end with a 15+ foot drop off with nothing to stop you but a little sign. Thank GOD I was able to stop it. I know you want to keep it stock but its not worth the risk to you or your family if they are in the car ! Take it off and bag it, you can always put it back on to make it stock. This can easily be undone man. I put hydroboost on my car, the diffrence is staggering. I can put you thur the window now, hold more boost, etc. It makes the pedal harder but when you mash it you KNOW you better be braced to keep your face off the windshield. The fastest car in the world is nothing but junk if you can't stop it ! Daniel Ray
I was told once by a hard core racer that going fast was all that mattered, stopping was secondary & not important.
 
Just curious on the vacuum brake guys running 23+ lbs of boost. When your on hi boost & you have a situation where you have to suddenly hit the brakes. How much vacuum do you have to make this happen? How long does it take your turbo to spool down & let vacuum be created?

I already know the answer. I just wanted to hear from some others who have gone thru this.
 
I dont have a problem with a hard pedal after WOT extended run with 24 plus PSI and vac brakes
 
Just curious on the vacuum brake guys running 23+ lbs of boost. When your on hi boost & you have a situation where you have to suddenly hit the brakes. How much vacuum do you have to make this happen? How long does it take your turbo to spool down & let vacuum be created?

I already know the answer. I just wanted to hear from some others who have gone thru this.

I had a situation once where I went from 16 pounds of boost to a panic stop. I had to really press on the pedal hard until the vacuum built back up (which did not take that long, but still a funny feel when you have to put that much pressure on the brake pedal compared to normal). At least I am not worrying about my Powermaster crapping out on me though.
 
If the check valve is doing it's job, you should have vac in the booster at any boost level.....
 
I have been around these cars since 86. The Powerdisaster had problems from day one. Convert to vacuum or even manual brakes. I'm not a fan of hydroboost do to the complicated nature and I owned a hotair and lost both steering and brakes due to an internal failure of the unit.
 
Why not replace your accumulator before it goes out?

Just curious on the vacuum brake guys running 23+ lbs of boost. When your on hi boost & you have a situation where you have to suddenly hit the brakes. How much vacuum do you have to make this happen? How long does it take your turbo to spool down & let vacuum be created?

I already know the answer. I just wanted to hear from some others who have gone thru this.



And what if that vacuum check valve fails or hangs up in a retro system YOU installed on your car?...........................And the suits will come after who?




HA HA........ Great question above! You know what I know. Oh GM is so stupid....Yeah Right. They just spend their days looking for ways to get into lawsuits. Or do they?...... Thank you for this much needed question.

I'll keep my Powermaster thank you. I have no problems now that I know how it works and how to maintain it. Before the accumulator fails (the most common) it gives you a few warning signs. When it does fail completely the dash light comes on. If you are smart you will stop and unplug the connector on the switch behind the resevoir. This way you save the pump from overheating and you will only need to replace ONE part.... Sure the pedal is a hard to push. So!.... You don't need to spend so much time the next time at the gym working your right leg muscles.

Want to avoid all this?

Preemptively buy a new accumulator before your car's goes south. Put a date on it in grease pencil or paint and do it again before two years are up. (Don't know how to replace it? PM me! I've done it many times and it isn't hard at all.)

If not, good luck with that "the brakes went out" thing.

Just like anything else in your brakes system. Almost all parts are sacrifical in that they have a timed life.

It is your life and your wallet. Roll the dice well grasshopper!


Dennis, I see a little of what you go through now. Geez :confused:
 
I dont have a problem with a hard pedal after WOT extended run with 24 plus PSI and vac brakes

... and you shouldn't. If you have vacuum stored in the booster, it shouldn't go anywhere. :) Unless your check valve leaks bad......
 
And what if that vacuum check valve fails or hangs up in a retro system YOU installed on your car?...........................And the suits will come after who?




HA HA........ Great question above! You know what I know. Oh GM is so stupid....Yeah Right. They just spend their days looking for ways to get into lawsuits. Or do they?...... Thank you for this much needed question.

I'll keep my Powermaster thank you. I have no problems now that I know how it works and how to maintain it. Before the accumulator fails (the most common) it gives you a few warning signs. When it does fail completely the dash light comes on. If you are smart you will stop and unplug the connector on the switch behind the resevoir. This way you save the pump from overheating and you will only need to replace ONE part.... Sure the pedal is a hard to push. So!.... You don't need to spend so much time the next time at the gym working your right leg muscles.

Want to avoid all this?

Preemptively buy a new accumulator before your car's goes south. Put a date on it in grease pencil or paint and do it again before two years are up. (Don't know how to replace it? PM me! I've done it many times and it isn't hard at all.)

If not, good luck with that "the brakes went out" thing.

Just like anything else in your brakes system. Almost all parts are sacrifical in that they have a timed life.

It is your life and your wallet. Roll the dice well grasshopper!


Dennis, I see a little of what you go through now. Geez :confused:

Genious know-it-all with 36 posts...:rolleyes: OK, oh great one, since GM is so 'stupid', why did they put vacuum brakes on the Turbo TA??

yea, I guess the fuse has a resistance monitoring circuit that warns when the fuse is about to blow, and 'gives you a few warning signs'...:rolleyes:

I bet my ass my check valve lasts longer than your PM... in fact, I bet my check valve lasts longer than your engine... 12 years and counting...

So what the pedal is hard to push??? Are you kidding??? Tell that to the parents of the 3 year-old you run over in the 20 mph zone...

You are a f%^king idiot... post about things you know about.... which is obviously very little...:rolleyes:
 
I had my car at the body shop a few years ago when he cut the holes for the gnx fender vents. I remember he called me and said the brake pedal went to the floor. I think I replaced the grey switch but can't remember for sure. Anybody know what would cause the pedal to go to the floor in a powermaster? I also had the hard pedal syndrome in my other TR. Happened one morning when I got in to go to work. So I guess so far I've had two catastrophic failures with no injuries. Actually, when I bought my third GN, the brake light was on when I took it for a test drive. A new accumulator fixed it.
 
Dennis years ago when the proportional valves were still available you would recommend changing them also. I have had my share of spongy pedal complaints linked to a bad valve & hardly hear any mention of that possibility when trying to diagnose power master problems.

According to the Buick Parts Identification Guide 1986 and 1987 editions GM used three different sources for the brake valves. Two of which were prone to rust quickly. Only one version was brass and is the desireable one since it will not rust.

The replacement one we sell is brass.

Fresh brake fluid will definately help as does going with stainless brake hoses up front help keep the hard pedal...especially true now that the original hoses are over 20 plus years old.

Again I am far from an expert nor do I claim to be, only relating advice I know that works and related to parts that have had a constant demand related to the powermaster system.

We were very instrumental with Cardone to get the brake bowl reproduced as that has been a huge answer to the issues since the GM one is long gone from the parts system.

denniskirban@yahoo.com
 
In my opinion, the vacuum brakes will devalue my car significantly less than smashing the front end into something. I won't ever look back. My check valve works properly, I have vac storage in the booster for a panic stop. FYI if the check valve in your daily driver fails it will also have no assist going from WOT to panic stop, MOMENTARILY. The throttle slams shut in both pretty damn fast and starts sucking shortly thereafter. Do you lay in bed at night worrying if your daily driver or other muscle car is due for it's check valve replacement? Oh that's right, NOBODY with vacuum brakes worries about them because they are the most reliable form of assist. Manual brakes are more reliable yet if you care to deal with that. If I were to buy another turbo buick I would consider a vacuum brake conversion a bonus, one less thing I will have to do. :)

This topic will be debated on this forum until the end of time or at least until people get tired of paying tons of money to temporarily fix their powermasters. I've probably posted in enough of these threads for awhile.
 
Genious know-it-all with 36 posts...:rolleyes: OK, oh great one, since GM is so 'stupid', why did they put vacuum brakes on the Turbo TA??

yea, I guess the fuse has a resistance monitoring circuit that warns when the fuse is about to blow, and 'gives you a few warning signs'...:rolleyes:

I bet my ass my check valve lasts longer than your PM... in fact, I bet my check valve lasts longer than your engine... 12 years and counting...

So what the pedal is hard to push??? Are you kidding??? Tell that to the parents of the 3 year-old you run over in the 20 mph zone...

You are a f%^king idiot... post about things you know about.... which is obviously very little...:rolleyes:

Brian,

Please get some help with your Crisco addiction. You know everyone has been telling you for years to get help.

No I don't have that many post. I have a good life, unlike what it sounds like you do. I do find what you did interesting though.

"Tell that to the parents of a 3 year old you ran over in the 20 mph zone." Whaaat?..... You couldn't have made that up...... No doubt drawn from your own "life's" events. Way to go!...You are a champion! LOL Aren't you something to behold? ALL class and style too.

I guess that is where they run their cars in Alabama. In 20 mph zones. And running over a "3 year-old" is the extra benefit of that intelligent action..... Wow!

For what it is worth. A failed Powermaster isn't that difficult to stop from a 20 or even 30 mph roll..... But if you place in the Crisco as a factor?.... Well Maybe!

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