powermaster failure....best replacement??

A few things can render a switch bad.
1 leaking
2 will not kick motor on
3 will not shut motor off
4 shorted to ground

As far as the accumulator:
Should get 2-3 pumps of the brake before motor kicks on. If motor comes on every time you hit the brakes, the accumulator is bad. Another indicator would be the brake light flashing on for a sec when brakes are applied.

Rick
Thanks Rick, replaced accumulator problem solved!
 
Just caught this thread:

All good points, grey brke switch failure is not too common, signs are leaking, or blowing the 30 amp fuse. brake bowl three versions exist the original which was all black the second design which has yellow silk screening wording on it with the 17mm nut on the outer side. The third version and the one that Cardone reproduced is a larger bowl all black and may have caution decal on it. The Cardone bowl has been bullet proof and available for over 3-4 years now and we sell it to most of the major other Buick vendors.

Bowl failure is probably most common problem usually starts slow meaning your brake lite may flicker on and of when you first start your car and hit the brakes.
Motor running constantly and other issues usually means dirt is causing check valve to stick.... due to the fact GM neglected to infom owners of these cars to flush the brake fluid every 1-2 years which would have helped.

As far long term value goes staying with the factory powerrmaster system keeps the car original. We have them rebuilt by Cardone with a limited lifetime warranty to the car owner.

So, as it has been pointed out options exist the choice is yours but the bottom dollar is OEM original is where the best value is in the long run.

denniskirban@yahoo.com
 
Good luck. and no pun intended. Id make sure your insurance is current and carry extra undies. If you drive it enough there is NO question that one day you will go for the brake pedal and as Tommyv8 coined it , you will experience the wrath of the "power disaster" I couldn't remove and convert mine fast enough. Again- good luck .
 
Not really. Sure a lot BS gets thrown around this thread. I'm not alone. I've owned my 86 since new, and my 87 since mid 90's. Neither has ever suffered such a catastrophic failure. I assume because I actually bothered to properly maintain them.
Knock off the scare tactics and learn how to maintain things.

Posted to TurboBuick.com from my RAZR MAXX HD
 
My Powermaster exhibited the exact same symptoms described by the OP and I got a new accumulator bowl, which worked perfectly. Problem solved...for a short while. Less than a tank of gas later the brake warning light came on and STAYED on. The pedal went hard and I had almost no brakes. The Powermaster motor had fried, as pretty much all electric motors eventually do, so all I had was the gas charge that was already saved up in the bowl, which was quickly used up. I guess the motor may have been overtaxed beforehand by having to kick on every time the pedal was pressed, due to the brake bowl not holding a charge. I had recently (less than 1,000 miles) acquired the car from a guy who had neglected it and obviously had no idea how to maintain it. The GN has 62k on it, and my recently departed Camaro had 216k when it was snuffed out last fall. The only brake problem I ever had on that Camaro was a sticky caliper a while back; it never totally failed on me or even scared me. Nor has any car I've ever had, save the GN.
 
Not really. Sure a lot BS gets thrown around this thread. I'm not alone. I've owned my 86 since new, and my 87 since mid 90's. Neither has ever suffered such a catastrophic failure. I assume because I actually bothered to properly maintain them.
Knock off the scare tactics and learn how to maintain things.

Posted to TurboBuick.com from my RAZR MAXX HD
Not really. Sure a lot BS gets thrown around this thread. I'm not alone. I've owned my 86 since new, and my 87 since mid 90's. Neither has ever suffered such a catastrophic failure. I assume because I actually bothered to properly maintain them.
Knock off the scare tactics and learn how to maintain things.

Posted to TurboBuick.com from my RAZR MAXX HD
Thanks for your service Dave. I'm glad you have not had a PM fail on you. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. For the record I do maintain my GN quite well, and I have changed the brake fluid as recommended, using quality synthetic fluids. I put well over 50k on the 87 that I've owned since 93 and its extremely well maintained. I bought most all my parts from Cotton's performance and they did a lot of the PM brake work. They definitely know what they are doing. The failures all were electrical except for 1 accumulator failure and I assure you its not BS when I tell you I had 3 failures without any advance warning, no lights no nothing that scared the life out of me. I'm not trying to throw scare tactics around here but I am trying to let folks know that a PM can fail without warning, which can easily end very badly. You are free to believe what you like, but if you research it you will find that the power master has had some serious and dangerous unique problems. I'm very Glad to hear that Dennis Kirban is on top of this and has some improved Power master part offerings for those that would like to keep that unit, but the earlier gm and aftermarket offerings were problematic.
 
I read somewhere that the PM was an experiment that came out before anti lock brakes. It wasn't meant to last 25 years. FWI, I had kept my fluid changed and the accumulator ball still failed, causing the motor to fry. Betting your life on a part that is known to fail is like playing Russian roulette. With the high performance exhausts that many of us run, it is hard to hear the PM motor running, so how do you know if it runs on every push or every third push of the brake pedal?
 
Thanks for your service Dave. I'm glad you have not had a PM fail on you. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. For the record I do maintain my GN quite well, and I have changed the brake fluid as recommended, using quality synthetic fluids. I put well over 50k on the 87 that I've owned since 93 and its extremely well maintained. I bought most all my parts from Cotton's performance and they did a lot of the PM brake work. They definitely know what they are doing. The failures all were electrical except for 1 accumulator failure and I assure you its not BS when I tell you I had 3 failures without any advance warning, no lights no nothing that scared the life out of me. I'm not trying to throw scare tactics around here but I am trying to let folks know that a PM can fail without warning, which can easily end very badly. You are free to believe what you like, but if you research it you will find that the power master has had some serious and dangerous unique problems. I'm very Glad to hear that Dennis Kirban is on top of this and has some improved Power master part offerings for those that would like to keep that unit, but the earlier gm and aftermarket offerings were problematic.


Please don't tell me you used DOT 5 fluid. It's not recommended. I personally don't have any experience with it, but have been told it's bad for a system that isn't designed to run it
 
I must have accidentally touched that ratings button while trying to scroll on my phone and didn't catch it, my bad Dave.
 
Please don't tell me you used DOT 5 fluid. It's not recommended. I personally don't have any experience with it, but have been told it's bad for a system that isn't designed to run it
Its synthetic and compatible with dot 3&4 fluids. Its not the import stuff. I use it in everything- It doesn't absorb moisture, doesn't eat paint, isn't much more expensive than dot 3/4 and it can be mixed with dot 3 and 4 . Its great for cars that sit over winters and also winter beaters that sit out the summers. I have not had any brake hydro problems in any of my cars and trucks since I started using it over 15 years ago. Before I changed over to the synthetic fluid I was forever dealing with failed masters wheel cylinders and calipers. Its good stuff, I think a lot of guys use it.
 
Just changed mine to vaccum yesterday and very glad i did. Install took 1.5 hours which included bleeding the brakes.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
Ci resto, i have the tool to trouble shoot the system. I'll sell it for 35 plus ride.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
As it has been pointed out in previous posts.

One major improvement is to step up to the stainless hoses for the front calipers.. Your originals swell up under pressure and gradually swell more than they did when the car was new. Gradualism is the term since it happens gradually most drivers won't notice it.

Brake proportioning valve I have covered this before in my weekly inner circle. Since I have a collection of GM books etc turns our GM used 3 different suppliers for the brake proportioning valve in these cars. Only one version was brass. Brass as you know don't rust. Those of you that may not know where this valve is located it is under the car by the floor pan like where you would rest your left foot. The perfect area to corrode year round.

Perhaps the biggest shortcoming owners where not told to do was to flush the brake fluid every 1-2 years to keep it clean. Small particules of dirt can wreck havoc in the powermaster system. clogs check valves etc.

More mistakes is overfilling the reservoir the left bank (passenger side) should only be about 1/3 filled while driver side should be like 2/3 filled when everything is flushed and bled properly.

GE made a few errors early one black brake switch safety recall would leak brake fluid grey switch is correct switch can blow fuse don't ask me how but it can. Original brake bowl was all black with nut inward by unit. Second design had the yellow silk screen wording and 17mm nut on exterior. Latest design of course is the reproduction Cardone bowl which is probably 15% larger than the original bowls and nut is inward. Those bowls have had zero defects. Afterall they are 25 plus years newer so advancements have been made during those years.

Recent brutal winters ad other problems even in late model cars with brake lines rusting through. (I had it happen on two cars)

Granted because of a multitude of screw ups the powermaster has fallen out of favor with a good portion of owners it still is the method to stay with if you want to keep your car as original as possible. We sell both rebuilt and new vacuum set ups and rebuilt powermasters.

So options exist......

denniskirban@yahoo.com

I can tell you from firs hand experience replacing the stock rubber brake hoses to front calipers makes an immediate difference you will be able to feel.
We sell that kit as do others think it includes a 3rd stainless hose for the part that goes over the rear. I have the kit on my personal car which still has the powermaster on it but I did have the bowl replaced last year and fluid flushed. Fluid should be almost clear and not look like Pepsi.
My car has 80,000 miles on it but not driven much in the last 2-3 years.
 
As it has been pointed out in previous posts.

One major improvement is to step up to the stainless hoses for the front calipers.. Your originals swell up under pressure and gradually swell more than they did when the car was new. Gradualism is the term since it happens gradually most drivers won't notice it.

Brake proportioning valve I have covered this before in my weekly inner circle. Since I have a collection of GM books etc turns our GM used 3 different suppliers for the brake proportioning valve in these cars. Only one version was brass. Brass as you know don't rust. Those of you that may not know where this valve is located it is under the car by the floor pan like where you would rest your left foot. The perfect area to corrode year round.

Perhaps the biggest shortcoming owners where not told to do was to flush the brake fluid every 1-2 years to keep it clean. Small particules of dirt can wreck havoc in the powermaster system. clogs check valves etc.

More mistakes is overfilling the reservoir the left bank (passenger side) should only be about 1/3 filled while driver side should be like 2/3 filled when everything is flushed and bled properly.

GE made a few errors early one black brake switch safety recall would leak brake fluid grey switch is correct switch can blow fuse don't ask me how but it can. Original brake bowl was all black with nut inward by unit. Second design had the yellow silk screen wording and 17mm nut on exterior. Latest design of course is the reproduction Cardone bowl which is probably 15% larger than the original bowls and nut is inward. Those bowls have had zero defects. Afterall they are 25 plus years newer so advancements have been made during those years.

Recent brutal winters ad other problems even in late model cars with brake lines rusting through. (I had it happen on two cars)

Granted because of a multitude of screw ups the powermaster has fallen out of favor with a good portion of owners it still is the method to stay with if you want to keep your car as original as possible. We sell both rebuilt and new vacuum set ups and rebuilt powermasters.

So options exist......

denniskirban@yahoo.com

I can tell you from firs hand experience replacing the stock rubber brake hoses to front calipers makes an immediate difference you will be able to feel.
We sell that kit as do others think it includes a 3rd stainless hose for the part that goes over the rear. I have the kit on my personal car which still has the powermaster on it but I did have the bowl replaced last year and fluid flushed. Fluid should be almost clear and not look like Pepsi.
My car has 80,000 miles on it but not driven much in the last 2-3 years.
Hey Dennis, whats your take on the synthetic fluid in the Powermasters?
 
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