No start. Losing motivation.

HookGN

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2023
I bought this 86 last year in running condition, then it died soon after due to a fuel issue. Replaced filter, tank, sending unit, 255 pump, 60 lbs injectors, and TT 5.7 chip. Had it running rough with a misfire, so I replaced MAF with a LT1 3” translator (already had cold air intake). I also installed new spark plugs (NGK UR5 gapped at .025), wires (MSD), and tr6 ignition just to take care of the whole thing all at once. It ran a little rich so I replaced the o2 sensor which seemed to correct the issue. I drove it around, then decided to park it and focus on restoring the interior/floor pans. I was confident enough that the engine would start anytime I turned the key.

The car sat in my garage for about a month. The interior is completely stripped now, but I decided to drive it around just to dust it off and keep it running.

Turned the key > engine turns over no start.
Fuel pressure at 43 lbs, translator plugged in and set correctly, battery charged. Obviously assuming it’s spark.
Pulled out each lightly used/nearly new plug and they were oily and had a bit of carbon. Cleaned them all off and reinstalled.
Turn key > no start 3x
Walked away frustrated and came back again to turn the key and it started. Ran very smooth. Had a decent bit of smoke and smelled like oil, so I checked dip stick. Little high. I decided to just perform a routine oil change since the new seasons coming anyway.
Oil looked nice and dirty. No coolant. No metal.
Turned key, starts, and no smoke. AFR had me running a little rich around 12 idling, but I closed it down and decided to take it on a drive the following day.

So today I hop in, go to start the car, and no start. Engine turns over. I’m assuming my plugs are fouled out again. It’s been a longer process than described and I’m just exhausted from working on this project.

Every thread I come across just seems bombarded by people referring others to use the search bar, and never answers simple questions. When I do find answers the posts are from 2007 and photos don’t load, or the info is vague.

All my scan master readings line up as recommended. TPS is set at .42 IGN on and .44-46 while idling. IAC ran a little high around 30 at idle. Nothing else sticks out.

I feel like if I continue to remove the plugs and turn it off again it’ll repeat the process. What would you guys do going forward? What can I test that may cause this consistent no start issue? I’m going to be attacking my spark system tonight, I just feel like I need some feedback from someone telling me I’m not wasting my time.
 
You said the AFR was around 12 at idle, was this determined via a wideband o2? Try dropping the fuel pressure 2 or 3 pounds via the adjustable regulator and see if it starts easier.
 
Bookmark these links:

Vortex Buicks


The Vortex site trouble shooting guide is very helpful.

The GN T Type site has good info also. A bit difficult to navigate with the drop down menus. If you find something you need, you better save it so you can locate it again.
 
Mikes idea is a great start. JM has pointed you to a good resource too.

Now let me say that I have had a lot of projects that have beat me down. But I always pull myself through them and get it done. You can too. These are great cars to own, and while they can be annoying, you will still be happy you took the time to finish it.

I have a project car that I am building myself. I built a tube chassis, put in my own built engine, and am currently doing the transaxle (on my third gearbox choice now). I have been on it five years. In that time I have walked away from it and worked on "easier" things, just to come back to the project & continue the work later. I have finished several easy cars (other projects) in that same time, but the hard car is still with me, calling me now & then. Its worth it tho', and so is your project.

The best advice I can give you is to do small jobs on it, then walk away. Stop each time while you are still enjoying the process. If it annoys you, pull back and tell her that you will come back soon. Doing it that way has always left me still sane, and willing to return.

I used to pull my hair out (sorta like what you are up against) and found that it spoiled the process. But once I started just doing small successful jobs on it I continued to enjoy it. No, I am not done with my major project yet, but I have no deadline!

If you dont have a deadline then simply dont let it bother you. Think about the car, try things, and if it does not work just smile & say "I will come back soon." then walk away knowing that you will beat it.

Its a project. They take time. And the bodywork you did shows you that you want it right. Keep at it, a bit at a time. You will get 'er.
 
You said the AFR was around 12 at idle, was this determined via a wideband o2? Try dropping the fuel pressure 2 or 3 pounds via the adjustable regulator and see if it starts easier.
Yes 12 at idle on the wideband. Lowered it around 38 to 30 still no start. Checking for spark now
 
Mikes idea is a great start. JM has pointed you to a good resource too.

Now let me say that I have had a lot of projects that have beat me down. But I always pull myself through them and get it done. You can too. These are great cars to own, and while they can be annoying, you will still be happy you took the time to finish it.

I have a project car that I am building myself. I built a tube chassis, put in my own built engine, and am currently doing the transaxle (on my third gearbox choice now). I have been on it five years. In that time I have walked away from it and worked on "easier" things, just to come back to the project & continue the work later. I have finished several easy cars (other projects) in that same time, but the hard car is still with me, calling me now & then. Its worth it tho', and so is your project.

The best advice I can give you is to do small jobs on it, then walk away. Stop each time while you are still enjoying the process. If it annoys you, pull back and tell her that you will come back soon. Doing it that way has always left me still sane, and willing to return.

I used to pull my hair out (sorta like what you are up against) and found that it spoiled the process. But once I started just doing small successful jobs on it I continued to enjoy it. No, I am not done with my major project yet, but I have no deadline!

If you dont have a deadline then simply dont let it bother you. Think about the car, try things, and if it does not work just smile & say "I will come back soon." then walk away knowing that you will beat it.

Its a project. They take time. And the bodywork you did shows you that you want it right. Keep at it, a bit at a time. You will get 'er.
Thanks for your response. I’m glad I’m not alone. Like you said, this car is awesome when it’s running. Everytime it turns on I say damn right I did that haha
 
Where are you located ?? Someone that can help might be right around the corner .
 
if the TR6 is installed, and the harness ground wire is connected to an engine ground, you can remove the cover and watch the internal LEDs

at key on all 4 will turn on for .5 sec, then go off (depending on engine position the cam and/or crank led may stay on.)
cranking the Crank LED should blink as the engine turns, the cam led will blink at a less frequent pace (the ratio is 1:6).

if the cam and crank sensors are working correctly, the Sync LED will turn on, you will start getting sparks and the ECM will begin injecting fuel.

Let us know what you see.

Bob
 
I agree with Bob,,, with his routine....... Im leaning toward the crank sensor,,, wiggle it & try again. can get one of those inline spark plug testers at autozone for about $13. So id go that route .. Crank,,, Cam,,, fuses to the ignition module? If not spark in that order.
 
I just went out to set my throttle position sensor and IAC and ended up with a will not start. Every time I made any adjustment, I turned the key on (but not to start) and back off to check my adjustments. I did this many times and when I went to start it, it wouldn't fire, even though I knew it ran before. I waited till the next day, and it did start with no adjustment, but it took a lot of cranking, and it ran rough at first. I suspect every time I turned the ignition on and off without starting, some fuel went into the cylinders. I suspect it was badly flooded and fouled. One bank of plugs showed dry and the other wet. In this case, when it doesn't start you repeat the process, and it makes things worse. Probably not your problem but maybe it will solve someone else's problem down the road.
 
...These are great cars to own, and while they can be annoying, you will still be happy you took the time to finish it...
Mine has beat me up & drawn blood several times. The combination of SAE & Metric fasteners drives me nuts! Often causes 2X trips to & from tool box. Lot of components packed into the engine bay with poor access & plenty of sharp edges. I keep a box of band-aides in the top of tool box. The electronics are not as intimidating to me as when I first brought the car home, but that is my weak link.

Keep plugging along.
 
if the TR6 is installed, and the harness ground wire is connected to an engine ground, you can remove the cover and watch the internal LEDs

at key on all 4 will turn on for .5 sec, then go off (depending on engine position the cam and/or crank led may stay on.)
cranking the Crank LED should blink as the engine turns, the cam led will blink at a less frequent pace (the ratio is 1:6).

if the cam and crank sensors are working correctly, the Sync LED will turn on, you will start getting sparks and the ECM will begin injecting fuel.

Let us know what you see.

Bob
Just gave it a try. After IGN on, all lights flash including trig/error. When turning the engine over, the lights flash as you describe (1:6 ratio with the sync illuminated) but the trig/error is flashing red once, pause, then 8 consecutive red flashes that repeat while the ignitions left on. With no start*

It turned over last night after cleaning the plugs again, but rinse and repeat I'm back at where I started.
 
code 18, check the CCCi fuse or main connector pin M
code18.png
 
code 18, check the CCCi fuse or main connector pin M
View attachment 391669

That’s the one. Fuse is good, but the pin connecter must have a short in it. I wiggled it around and it started up right away. Some smoke for the first few minutes but it’s burnt off and running around 14.5-15.6 on the wideband at idle.

Thanks for helping me solve this. Same goes for everyone else who pitched in.
 
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