New EPA Regs Make Our Cars Illegal?

Let me see if I can explain this another way.

You want to take a front mount intercooler off a Ford Powerstroke diesel and put it in your GN. It passed emissions in the Ford, so you're good, right? NO.

The EPA says you can't tamper with any emissions certified device, which would include things like the engine. The EPA considers the intercooler as part of the engine unit since it was part of that engine in say, an 87 GN, when it was originally certified.

So you still think it will pass? Maybe your local and state sniffer tests, but they aren't run by the EPA. The EPA would have authority, under this new rule, to fine you because you altered (ie: tampered with) your GN's original certified configuration.

So you think you can get it certified? Ok, how? Does the EPA provide this service for free? If not, who provides this service and will they do it for free? If not for free, how much is it going to cost you? The EPA's own website says doing some things with certified vehicles is permitted, but only if re-certified, and they admit this would be cost-prohibitive.

So say a company wants to make downpipes for a GN. Under this new rule, they would not be able to legally sell them for the GN unless they got their product certified. How much does this certification cost? Can a company actually sell a limited quantity (say less than 200) downpipes, pay for the cert, and still turn a profit?

How about an ECM tune? The proposed EPA regs are clear: absolutely NO tampering with an emissions control device. Guess we can't use the stock ECM then. Just go buy an aftermarket ECU and throw it in your GN, right? WRONG. What aftermarket ECU has EPA certification? Is there any way possible an aftermarket ECU could possibly get certification, especially if they could be altered by the end user to produce higher emissions if a mistake was made in the tune? I don't think so.


Let me see if I can explain it another way ... if it looks stock and you cant tell .. does it matter if it passes or not ? .. they wont put you on a sniffer anymore .. PERIOD those days are over !

front mount intercooler .. its EXEMPT chief ! look into the laws carefully ..

you keep using the work TAMPER .. WTF does that mean ?
IF I plug my EGR from the inside of the intake , or plug my turbo breather inlet , or use a stock appearing FPR, or port my heads , or run a TA49 .. WHO IS GOING TO KNOW !!!
there are a lot of parts that have already been exempted from recertification ..
it does not cost that much to certify a part .. but it depends on the part as well.

Downpipes wouldn't be a big deal at all....

The only one that would be an issue would be a Exhaust system as it would have to have a CAT on it ... but you can make it a 2 part exhaust with the CAT being a bolt on part from the downpipe to the CAT back .. guess what .. TEST pipe or FAKE CAT !

Chips .. or tune .. do you really think the EPA "AGENTS" are going to run a binary compare on chips ?? Seriously ??

if you really think the system can't be beat .. your very naïve .
 
Let me see if I can explain it another way ... if it looks stock and you cant tell .. does it matter if it passes or not ? .. they wont put you on a sniffer anymore .. PERIOD those days are over !

front mount intercooler .. its EXEMPT chief ! look into the laws carefully ..

you keep using the work TAMPER .. WTF does that mean ?
IF I plug my EGR from the inside of the intake , or plug my turbo breather inlet , or use a stock appearing FPR, or port my heads , or run a TA49 .. WHO IS GOING TO KNOW !!!
there are a lot of parts that have already been exempted from recertification ..
it does not cost that much to certify a part .. but it depends on the part as well.

Downpipes wouldn't be a big deal at all....

The only one that would be an issue would be a Exhaust system as it would have to have a CAT on it ... but you can make it a 2 part exhaust with the CAT being a bolt on part from the downpipe to the CAT back .. guess what .. TEST pipe or FAKE CAT !

Chips .. or tune .. do you really think the EPA "AGENTS" are going to run a binary compare on chips ?? Seriously ??

if you really think the system can't be beat .. your very naïve .

Ok, here's what I propose. I'll go along with you and not worry about any of this if YOU AGREE to pay all my EPA fines. Deal?
 
Ok, here's what I propose. I'll go along with you and not worry about any of this if YOU AGREE to pay all my EPA fines. Deal?


I know I wont be around to see the days of the EPA collecting fines because of aftermarket parts I have on my GN .. and I can promise you one thing .. the people in our community will always be 2 steps ahead of EPA
 
I know I wont be around to see the days of the EPA collecting fines because of aftermarket parts I have on my GN .. and I can promise you one thing .. the people in our community will always be 2 steps ahead of EPA

That's not an answer. Will you pay my EPA fines? You keep saying there is nothing to worry about. So what's the risk?
 
NO because judging by your posts .. you would go turn yourself in :)

You won't agree to pay because you don't believe what you are typing. You know there's a chance they will make good on their threats.

If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's your business. But I think you are doing a great disservice to this community by saying this will never get enforced. I think the alarm should be sounded now and we get all hands on deck and do everything possible to stop this BEFORE it gets passed. The more pressure we can get applied, the better.
 
You won't agree to pay because you don't believe what you are typing. You know there's a chance they will make good on their threats.

If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's your business. But I think you are doing a great disservice to this community by saying this will never get enforced. I think the alarm should be sounded now and we get all hands on deck and do everything possible to stop this BEFORE it gets passed. The more pressure we can get applied, the better.

The sky is falling the sky is falling .. Ohhh my !!

we saw how far they got enforcing the sniffer test on PRE OBD 2 cars

Wait until we get a shift in Govt .. which is going to happen shortly .. I am will to bet that the Clean Air Act will get amended .. and not in the EPA's direction .. just a hunch :)
 
The sky is falling the sky is falling .. Ohhh my !!

we saw how far they got enforcing the sniffer test on PRE OBD 2 cars

Wait until we get a shift in Govt .. which is going to happen shortly .. I am will to bet that the Clean Air Act will get amended .. and not in the EPA's direction .. just a hunch :)

What's being proposed isn't a sniffer test.

What's being proposed is a method of fining companies that make performance parts or offer "performance" services for anything that has a VIN and was originally emissions certified.

BIG difference. The latter is much easier to enforce.

By the way, I'm still waiting on that picture of the 10 sec GN that has a 100% stock appearing engine compartment you said exists.
 
Get collector car insurance for your Buick.

Fuck the EPA.

"The latter is much easier to enforce" . Just how do you propose they do it without breaking one or many commerce laws that are currently on the books?
 
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Get collector car insurance for your Buick.

Irrelevant. The proposed regs say you can't take a certified emissions legal vehicle off the road and turn it into a racecar or any other vehicle that will never see highway use again if you modify it. It must retain all its original emissions certified equipment in its original configuration no matter what the vehicle will be used for (racing only, off-road use only, car shows only, etc).
 
Irrelevant. The proposed regs say you can't take a certified emissions legal vehicle off the road and turn it into a racecar or any other vehicle that will never see highway use again if you modify it. It must retain all its original emissions certified equipment in its original configuration no matter what the vehicle will be used for (racing only, off-road use only, car shows only, etc).


Not irrelevant at all.

They can't put the Genie back in the bottle, no matter how they try. It will be challenged at every level and every turn. State by State, the regs will be gutted and left completely unenforceable, except for the N.E. liberal fuck states, those guys will bend right the fuck over for ANY government intervention. They all seem to think we need to be "saved" from ourselves and the Gov't has a better plan........

You don't think SEMA is already all over this bullshit?


They can come for my guns, too. We'll see how both play out.
 
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I know I wont be around to see the days of the EPA collecting fines because of aftermarket parts I have on my GN .. and I can promise you one thing .. the people in our community will always be 2 steps ahead of EPA


The "modded my car" world always has and always will be 15 steps ahead of "The Gub'ment". If you aren't, that's your bad.

Case closed.
 
It depends on how far they want to push it. Wasting time putting these cars on the sniffer to ensure proper EGR and/or air pump function, as well as visuals can be placed on top of the collector/historic insurance companies, and they won't mind they will just offset the cost by increasing insurance rates, which is a win win for them. Also, they won't be able to come for your guns because owning a gun is a right. A drivers license however is only a privilege...

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out...
 
To answer your question YES !!!

If you've ever had any interaction with the EPA "AGENTS" you wouldn't be asking how difficult it would be to enforce this ..

In the 80's and 90's when you had to go in for visual inspections and actually doing the dyno sniffer tests ... those EPA "AGENTS" couldn't tell a carburetor from a spark plug .
I couldn't tell you how many times I took my TTA in and just laughed .. if you really think they are all that capable of being able differentiate "stock Looking" non functional emissions parts
from functional parts .. you really need to rethink that .. people take the Buicks to Qualified mechanics and they look at the 3.8 turbo and have no clue of what they're looking at let alone
EPA "AGENTS "

Please tell me ( detailed explanation ) as to how they will enforce this .. so the "AGENTS" have smart phones and will take pictures ... OF WHAT ?

An internally blocked EGR , a Hollow Stock replacement CAT converter, the lift / duration of your camshaft , your ported Champion irons , a stock labeled Turbo Tweak Chip ,
a TA 49 under the stock turbo cover , your intank pump, a hotwire kit , that you run E85 ?

Get real man .. you think they are going to waste their time for 1% of vehicles out in the population ! they had to shutdown all the dyno rollers because of cost !

What your suggesting is not viable and the EPA knows it which is why they made PRE OBD 2 cars EXEMPT ... TOO COSTLY TO ENFORCE !!!
You're right there. I had an f150 with the 4.9 straight six swapped for a 5.0 v8. They would enter 4.9 and nobody ever thought that one was a 6 the other a v8!
 
This thread has more ridiculousness than any i can remember in a long time.
 
If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's your business. But I think you are doing a great disservice to this community by saying this will never get enforced. I think the alarm should be sounded now and we get all hands on deck and do everything possible to stop this BEFORE it gets passed. The more pressure we can get applied, the better.

You're sounding more and more like Alex Jones... :)

Emissions equipment does not hinder performance as much as you would think, the only reason why people remove them is because it reduces clutter, as well as members looking to pull every last tenth in the 1/4 mile that they can. Tuning bins can be switched back and forth on the fly if they ever attempted going as far as you are implying they will. The only thing that will affect smog is too much overlap, and ECM's will target any air/fuel ratio you need them to; idle, part throttle and wide open throttle. So let them sniff away. As for a stock appearing ten second Grand National, I believe there was a challenge on here awhile back, forget the winners name though, but he either ran it, or came damn close to doing it...
 
It depends on how far they want to push it. Wasting time putting these cars on the sniffer to ensure proper EGR and/or air pump function, as well as visuals can be placed on top of the collector/historic insurance companies, and they won't mind they will just offset the cost by increasing insurance rates, which is a win win for them. Also, they won't be able to come for your guns because owning a gun is a right. A drivers license however is only a privilege...

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out...
Last i knew you didnt need a drivers license to own a car.
 
What good is a car if it cannot be driven? A momento of a time that once was...?
Almost every sanctioning body of racing has production motor vehicles as the base for their classes. Most of them are not registered or driven by the owners. Nex thread will be is the EPA going to seize my car?
 
It depends on how far they want to push it. Wasting time putting these cars on the sniffer to ensure proper EGR and/or air pump function, as well as visuals can be placed on top of the collector/historic insurance companies, and they won't mind they will just offset the cost by increasing insurance rates, which is a win win for them. Also, they won't be able to come for your guns because owning a gun is a right. A drivers license however is only a privilege...

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out...


So, by your logic they're going to take my license away because I own a modded car?

BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Are you F'n kidding me?
 
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