New EPA Regs Make Our Cars Illegal?

turbo89

Well-Known Member
So if I get hauled into court by the EPA, do you think "THEY CANT ENFORCE THIS" is going to be a viable argument I can use that will cause the judge to dismiss the case?

No I don't think you will have to worry about that ...

I think your focus should really be on something that is far more plausible ... perhaps you should start concerning yourself with an asteroid collision or getting hit by that lightening bolt.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
I see the lips moving, but I don't hear anything of substance being said.


That's because you don't know how to listen, as you've proven so many time here.

In its 1977 amendments to the Clean Air Act, Congress largely exempted existing coalfired
power plants from pollution-control requirements, probably on the theory that many of
these plants were due for retirement. See Jonathan Remy Nash & Richard L. Revesz,
Grandfathering and Environmental Regulation: The Law and Economics of New Source Review,
101 NW. U. L. REV. 1677, 1681–2 (2007) (noting that although the legislative history is
not explicit on this point, it “strongly suggests that Congress in 1970 expected grandfathering
of these sources to be only temporary”). The mandated controls on new plants were so expensive,
however, that many plant owners elected to extend the lives of the old plants. A highpitched,
decades-long battle ensued over what sorts of improvements to old plants would expose
them to the control requirements established for new plants. See id. at 1707–18; Shi-Ling
Hsu, The Real Problem with New Source Review, 36 Envtl. L. Rep. (Envtl. Law Inst.) 10,095,
10,096–98 (2006); Edan Rotenberg, Ending Both Forms of Grandfathering in Environmental
Law
, 37 Envtl. L. Rep. (Envtl. Law Inst.) 10,717 (2007); Paul Krugman, Every Breath You
Take
, N.Y. TIMES, Nov. 26, 2002, at A27.


During the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, certain firearms made before the ban's enactment were legal to own. Automatic weapons that were manufactured and registered before the Firearm Owners Protection Act (enacted May 19, 1986) may legally be transferred to civilians.

Tolled highways that existed before the Interstate Highway System are exempt from Interstate standards despite being designated as Interstate highways. Many such toll roads (particularly the Pennsylvania Turnpike) remain as such. However, tolled highways built since the Interstate system, such as the tolled section of PA Route 60 and PA Turnpike 576, must be built or upgraded to Interstate standards before receiving Interstate designation. Both highways are to be part of the Interstate system, with PA 60 now I-376 and PA Turnpike 576 to become I-576 in the near future. As well, U.S. Interstate Highway standards mandate a minimum 11-foot median; however, highways built before those standards have been grandfathered into the system. The Kansas Turnpike is the most notable example, as it has been retrofitted with a Jersey barrier along its entire 236-mile length.
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
No I don't think you will have to worry about that ...

I think your focus should really be on something that is far more plausible ... perhaps you should start concerning yourself with an asteroid collision or getting hit by that lightening bolt.

So are you saying what happened to Casper's isn't more plausible under these new regs?
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
That's because you don't know how to listen, as you've proven so many time here.

In its 1977 amendments to the Clean Air Act, Congress largely exempted existing coalfired
power plants from pollution-control requirements, probably on the theory that many of
these plants were due for retirement. See Jonathan Remy Nash & Richard L. Revesz,
Grandfathering and Environmental Regulation: The Law and Economics of New Source Review,
101 NW. U. L. REV. 1677, 1681–2 (2007) (noting that although the legislative history is
not explicit on this point, it “strongly suggests that Congress in 1970 expected grandfathering
of these sources to be only temporary”). The mandated controls on new plants were so expensive,
however, that many plant owners elected to extend the lives of the old plants. A highpitched,
decades-long battle ensued over what sorts of improvements to old plants would expose
them to the control requirements established for new plants. See id. at 1707–18; Shi-Ling
Hsu, The Real Problem with New Source Review, 36 Envtl. L. Rep. (Envtl. Law Inst.) 10,095,
10,096–98 (2006); Edan Rotenberg, Ending Both Forms of Grandfathering in Environmental
Law
, 37 Envtl. L. Rep. (Envtl. Law Inst.) 10,717 (2007); Paul Krugman, Every Breath You
Take
, N.Y. TIMES, Nov. 26, 2002, at A27.


During the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, certain firearms made before the ban's enactment were legal to own. Automatic weapons that were manufactured and registered before the Firearm Owners Protection Act (enacted May 19, 1986) may legally be transferred to civilians.

Tolled highways that existed before the Interstate Highway System are exempt from Interstate standards despite being designated as Interstate highways. Many such toll roads (particularly the Pennsylvania Turnpike) remain as such. However, tolled highways built since the Interstate system, such as the tolled section of PA Route 60 and PA Turnpike 576, must be built or upgraded to Interstate standards before receiving Interstate designation. Both highways are to be part of the Interstate system, with PA 60 now I-376 and PA Turnpike 576 to become I-576 in the near future. As well, U.S. Interstate Highway standards mandate a minimum 11-foot median; however, highways built before those standards have been grandfathered into the system. The Kansas Turnpike is the most notable example, as it has been retrofitted with a Jersey barrier along its entire 236-mile length.

Didn't all of those laws and regulations you cited have grandfather clauses written into them?

PLEASE SHOW ME IN THIS PROPOSED EPA REGULATION WHERE THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE IS.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
The burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim nothing can or will happen. And you are also making the claim that even if it does get passed, there are loopholes and ways around it. I just want to hear about these loopholes and ways around the law you seem to know.


Again, you prove your inability to listen to or comprehend another point of veiw......

Post #167

"I'm not now and never have said the reg's won't/can't be put in place.

All I've been saying is trying to put the genie back in the bottle will be a monumental task and since the gov't has already "been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years..." it will be met with stiff resistance every step of the way."

Give it a rest.
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
So are you saying what happened to Casper's isn't more plausible under these new regs?


No because no IDIOT is going to put a sign out on the front lawn of their shop that says ... " I DIRECTLY TAMPER WITH EMISSIONS CONTROL DEVICES"

and no IDIOT is going to put a sign on the front lawn of their shop that says .. " I REMOVE CATALYTIC CONVERTORS "

is that a bit clearer ?

I can play this the other way and come up with an EXCELLENT case against the EPA .. a loophole that they CAN 'T win .. but will have to pay .. so my lawyer gets 33% ( plenty to go around )
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
Again, you prove your inability to listen to or comprehend another point of veiw......

Post #167

"I'm not now and never have said the reg's won't/can't be put in place.

All I've been saying is trying to put the genie back in the bottle will be a monumental task and since the gov't has already "been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years..." it will be met with stiff resistance every step of the way."

Give it a rest.

It's difficult to comprehend information that isn't there.

All you've said is they "can't", "won't", and even if they do, "it will be met with stiff resistance".

That's not information, that's your opinion.

I think it is you having the problem comprehending things. I'm asking for proof, facts, legal precedence. You've cited none. Instead, you resort to personal attacks which aren't helping the discussion.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
It's difficult to comprehend information that isn't there.

All you've said is they "can't", "won't", and even if they do, "it will be met with stiff resistance".

That's not information, that's your opinion.

I think it is you having the problem comprehending things. I'm asking for proof, facts, legal precedence. You've cited none. Instead, you resort to personal attacks which aren't helping the discussion.


Once again, you show that you just won't/don't/can't comprehend what is said.

I'm not now and never have said the reg's won't/can't be put in place.

What of substance have you brought to the table? Nothing. All you continue to do is stoke the fires of fear.
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
I can play this the other way and come up with an EXCELLENT case against the EPA .. a loophole that they CAN 'T win .. but will have to pay .. so my lawyer gets 33% ( plenty to go around )

Good, play it and post up the video. Until then, your talk is worth about 2 dead flies.
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
Once again, you show that you just won't/don't/can't comprehend what is said.

I see what you posted (said), and I comprehend that you said it, but what good is it? It's just your opinion. No facts, no explanation, no legal precedent provided to back up your claims.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
I see what you posted (said), and I comprehend that you said it, but what good is it? It's just your opinion. No facts, no explanation, no legal precedent provided to back up your claims.

I've said it's my opinion all along, I never tried to mask it, yet you just can't seem leave it the fuck alone.

The fact is, here on the Interweb, my comments carry every bit of weight yours do.

Much to your chagrin, our comments will not change the world, they will not cure cancer and they certainly will not sway the opinions of others who choose to disagree with us.
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
I've said it's my opinion all along, I never tried to mask it, yet you just can't seem leave it the fuck alone.

The fact is, here on the Interweb, my comments carry every bit of weight yours do.

Much to your chagrin, our comments will not change the world, they will not cure cancer and they certainly will not sway the opinions of others who choose to disagree with us.

I posted my opinions, you posted yours. Then others came into the discussion and raised other "what if" scenarios - and I reply with how I can see the EPA doing this or that in response to those. What was I supposed to do, in your eyes? Make one statement in this whole thread and just go away?

You and turbo89 start with the personal attacks and insults because you don't like what I have to say. In fact, you both start spouting off about how none of this is ever going to come to pass and nobody has anything to worry about.

Not exactly a good way of getting your comments to carry weight, IMHO. And certainly not a good way of trying to get people to jump on the bandwagon to oppose this crap.
 
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TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
I posted my opinions, you posted yours. Then somebody else comes into the discussion and raises another "what if" scenario - and I reply with how I can see the EPA doing this or that.

Then you and turbo89 start with the personal attacks and insults because you don't like what I have to say. Not exactly a good way of getting your comments to carry weight, IMHO.


Again, "IYHO" doesn't hold any sway with me.

You complain about us yet instead of ignoring it like most would, you just keep coming back again and again looking for attention. Well you got it, then you act all butthurt.

Personal attacks? Really?

I'm so sorry.

There's your apology. Have a good weekend.

PS - Nice ninja edit.......;)
 
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Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
Again, IYHO does hold any sway with me.

You complain about us yet instead of ignoring it like most would, you just keep coming back again and again looking for attention. Well you got it, then you act all butthurt.

Personal attacks? Really?

I'm so sorry.

There's your apology. Have a good weekend.

You think I'm acting butthurt? LOL. I could care less about you and turbo89's opinions of me, personally; I think your statements show how immature both of you are. I'm not new to the internet message forum game - I've seen this all before. I don't need your apology if it is going to be worth as much as the rest of your statements.

However, I do care about our car hobby and the related industry, which I am a part of. I'm pretty passionate about this specific issue because it does have the potential to threaten my livelihood. And I do give a shit about my customers as well, as this could impact them negatively. I'm sorry this pisses you guys off, but I can't help you with that.

Perhaps you two should have taken your own advice and just ignored this thread altogether, if the "scare tactics" really got under your skin.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
You think I'm acting butthurt? LOL. I could care less about you and turbo89's opinions of me, personally; I think your statements show how immature both of you are. I'm not new to the internet message forum game - I've seen this all before. I don't need your apology if it is going to be worth as much as the rest of your statements.

However, I do care about our car hobby and the related industry, which I am a part of. I'm pretty passionate about this specific issue because it does have the potential to threaten my livelihood. And I do give a shit about my customers as well, as this could impact them negatively. I'm sorry this pisses you guys off, but I can't help you with that.




Good for you. Then why are you participating in this thread if you don't care?


Just to piss you off ...



Yes, you're acting butthurt. Whose pissed? It sure isn't me.:D

I'm glad you're passionate about this, keep up the fight but please stop trying to fight with me.

I've said many times we're on the same side ( Again, you missed that part), we just have different opinions on how this will all turn out.
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
Yes, you're acting butthurt. Whose pissed? It sure isn't me.:D

I'm glad you're passionate about this, keep up the fight but please stop trying to fight with me.

I've said many times we're on the same side ( Again, you missed that part), we just have different opinions on how this will all turn out.


Geez .. all I did was say they will have a heck of time enforcing this and that some are just fueling the fire ...

Sure am glad I kept all the original parts off my GN so I can go put it back to 100% stock as it came from GM ... it's a shame , as that will INCREASE THE HELL OUT OF EMISSIONS coming out of the vehicle compared to how it is now ... but if that's what they want ... I have to go along with it !
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
Geez .. all I did was say they will have a heck of time enforcing this and that some are just fueling the fire ...

... but if that's what they want ... I have to go along with it !

Why?:eek:

Because some here say it's THE one and only obvious outcome and the only way things can possibly play out?:cool::cool:

You big pussy!!!! :D:D:D:D
 
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