New documentary on the GN

JayC

T6P.Com/TB.com Administrator/Webmaster
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2001
I remember when I started hanging out with Buick folks back in the early / mid 90's. I got my subscription to the GSCA and went to local chapter meets. Back then I had my '68 GS 400 and most of the crowd were turbo Buick people. They spoke greek to me at the time. Always going on about BLM, TPS, MAF, boost, o2, haha. Anyway, I remember hearing about drama and politics surrounding the nats and those involved. Everyone seemed to be a sheep and follow whatever the newsletter said. When I went to have my big block built ('69 430), I went to a guy that had no ties to the Buick community. That was kind of frowned on, but this guy had built a lot of nice motors, had a Masters degree in engineering, and knew the do's and don't of Buick motors off the top of his head. I was given the 3rd degree by a few after they found out that I was not going to go with the standard "club cam" and that my builder had a custom ground Lunati that came from Torque Tech (or Dork Tech as they called it back then). A couple years later that cam profile popped up all over the place (116 lsa, 235 / 245 duration, .495 / .505 lift I think). I was told it wouldn't work out. With that cam and all the port work done to my '68 heads, my GS was stupid fast. The best part was that I kept a stock intake and exhaust manifolds (match ported) on it and it surprised the hell out of everyone. It was fun to pull away from someone with a 455 that had the 118 cam, Edelbrock or TA intake, headers and pop the hood afterwards. I miss that motor.

I actually came up with Torque Tech's profiles.... for all 3 of their cams. we ran great times with them during testing. I worked with Lunati for quite a while on those before everyone figured out Lunati's Buick cams suck.. not from a performance standpoint but from a "going flat" standpoint.

Ive done a lot more for these cars than I think most people realize.
 

JayC

T6P.Com/TB.com Administrator/Webmaster
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2001
good story tell it again bro
wtf. this thread is whored up by haters-

is it possible that it isn't a movie about your ideals and experiences ;you know perhaps you don't know it all?
hey God bless the pioneers that have left us like Buddy Ingersol- who never helped me do a damn thing or shared 1 secret or piece of advise
like some people still living.

I never said I "knew it all." I said a documentary about the car without the grass roots stuff that only went along with it is only half the story.

Do you think I had someone holding my hand when I was working with the two guys I spent considerable years with on their cars? They were both two of the fastest cars in the country at the time and one of the two guys could barely change spark plugs on his own.
 

TexasT

Texas, Where are you from
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
good story tell it again bro
wtf. this thread is whored up by haters-

is it possible that it isn't a movie about your ideals and experiences ;you know perhaps you don't know it all?
hey God bless the pioneers that have left us like Buddy Ingersol- who never helped me do a damn thing or shared 1 secret or piece of advise
like some people still living.

I tried to swerve it up out of the ditch. If you have stories(That's what they are, stories), come on over and post em up. Pix are great too. Let's hear what cha got. It aint a pi$$in contest, it is the "good OLD daze" and everyone has their own point of view.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/gs-nats-and-the-old-days-who-has-a-story.387745/
 

GNocide

rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
I tried to swerve it up out of the ditch. If you have stories(That's what they are, stories), come on over and post em up. Pix are great too. Let's hear what cha got. It aint a pi$$in contest, it is the "good OLD daze" and everyone has their own point of view.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/gs-nats-and-the-old-days-who-has-a-story.387745/
thank you
which is why it should be in another thread..

this is about a movie coming out ;not about:

who didn't get asked to be in it
why my car isn't there
we do 7 sec and no one asked us shit
we were first yadda yadda

to those people you should have applied that much of yourselves and made a movie on the 24th anniversary.
 

02WS686GN

GM EFI Founder/Editor
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
There's already a review out:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/06/movie-review-black-air-the-buick-grand-national-documentar/

The filmmaker appears to have made a very good attempt at talking to the principles that were still around.

Turbo6inKY, the first post of this thread was my review of the film, and the first review published anywhere. In case you missed you check it out!

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/featur...lack-air-the-buick-grand-national-documentary
 

MeanBuicks

Scaring the neighbors!
Joined
May 24, 2001
Staying on topic, I did place an order last night; #529. Looking forward to it. :cool:
 

gbsean

Active Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Just an FYI Andrew has plans on doing follow up Documentary on the Turbo Buick covering the the Car after 1987. Including performance upgrades vendors racers etc. It will be a more performance based modifications type of documentary. I got to see the entire movie today and it is a great movie in regards to the way the car came about and the passion behind the car and how it was a misfit... This is a DVD for any car enthusiast.
 

BuickMike

Money pit
Joined
Jun 7, 2001
My wife wanted something cheap to buy me for Christmas, so I gave her a link to the DVD. Looking forward to it.
 

JayC

T6P.Com/TB.com Administrator/Webmaster
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2001
Im glad to hear he's planning a followup. Im not personally interested in being in it but if he wants to get in touch with me, I can put him in touch with the people that used to make stuff happen. I dont really know that this content would make a good movie... there arent a lot of videos because video equipment was really expensive back then. It would make a pretty awesome book tho.
 

gbsean

Active Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Jay...why so negative...nobody has done anything like this before...the reviews from those that saw the first 20 mins at BPG were more than positive...Everyone that saw the Movie today bought a copy and had nothing but great thing to say...could it have been done differently yes...but this documentary puts another spin on "that Black Car"...I have talked to Andrew at length on the follow up...if this project takes off and based on the one day sales it should it will provide the funds to do the follow up which will include the cult following the progression of aftermarket parts and those that helped take a stock GN to the performance levels they have achieved today. Heck there is even a segment on the TB.com nationals...and Richard Clarks shop...in Fact TB.com was the only website mentioned on the video....do not judge until you have seen it....
 

JayC

T6P.Com/TB.com Administrator/Webmaster
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2001
Jay...why so negative...nobody has done anything like this before...the reviews from those that saw the first 20 mins at BPG were more than positive...Everyone that saw the Movie today bought a copy and had nothing but great thing to say...could it have been done differently yes...but this documentary puts another spin on "that Black Car"...I have talked to Andrew at length on the follow up...if this project takes off and based on the one day sales it should it will provide the funds to do the follow up which will include the cult following the progression of aftermarket parts and those that helped take a stock GN to the performance levels they have achieved today. Heck there is even a segment on the TB.com nationals...and Richard Clarks shop...in Fact TB.com was the only website mentioned on the video....do not judge until you have seen it....

Im not going to rehash this. Read the thread, dude. Im not negative. I wish him all the luck in the world with this thing. I just think had the grassroots history of the car been included, it would have given an accurate picture of things.

Its great TB.Com was mentioned but what about Gnttype? Thats the site that started the internet revolution for these cars. This site came along MUCH later.

I guess the easiest way to sum it up is I feel like people are getting half the story but in the grand scheme of things, thats not a bad thing.
 

gbsean

Active Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
it was not about the grass roots of the car....and I have read the thread...it is not about where the car is now...but where the car was in 1987....how it came to be...not the following it has today....it is about the little Buick that could and did back in 1987...I am sure that once you see the movie you will get the "idea and concept" Andrew had...unless you see the movie how can you judge....
 

Sydwyndr

Admin
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2001
it was not about the grass roots of the car....and I have read the thread...it is not about where the car is now...but where the car was in 1987....how it came to be...not the following it has today....it is about the little Buick that could and did back in 1987...I am sure that once you see the movie you will get the "idea and concept" Andrew had...unless you see the movie how can you judge....
X2.... You couldn't have said that better. Just remember its just a "pedestrian" vehicle ;)
 

DJ Red Barron

Door-To-Door Pipelayer
Joined
May 10, 2003
Im not going to rehash this. Read the thread, dude. Im not negative. I wish him all the luck in the world with this thing. I just think had the grassroots history of the car been included, it would have given an accurate picture of things.

Its great TB.Com was mentioned but what about Gnttype? Thats the site that started the internet revolution for these cars. This site came along MUCH later.

I guess the easiest way to sum it up is I feel like people are getting half the story but in the grand scheme of things, thats not a bad thing.
This site may have come along much later. But is it not the more visited site? AFAIK, anytime I am on other boards and people say things like, "Hey, I am thinking about getting into Turbo Regals. Where can I go to learn stuff?", the answer is always "TurboBuick.com". That isn't a slam against GNTType. Just a personal observation.

As far as the negativity, below was your first post in the thread:
Meh... I think a lot of important history was left out of this film. Im sure it was a great effort but unless whoever made this really beat the ground to find any of the people who truly innovated for these cars (And almost all of them are gone) its just going to be a fluff piece with a bunch of cars in it. Props to them for making it but Ill be passing. I have my own 25 year version in my head.. Im sure theirs is quite different. Difference is, I was actually there.

Yea, it's pretty negative toward Andrew right from the start. Your basic sentiment is your experiences are somehow more true and relevant because you "were there". That's great. Maybe yours is the more accurate story. Who knows?

And yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, most opinions are only taken seriously if they are at least formed after one has taken the time to, in this case, actually watch what it is they are forming an opinion on. Otherwise, it is nothing more than some guy talking out of his @$$.
 

Turbo38V6

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
LOL.. I was wondering if anyone else was going to know about the post cards. Ive gotten quite a few of those.

Here's a good one for you if you werent there and man, I wish I knew who was behind this and I wish I had a copy of one to show off. I HAD one I saved but it was many years ago.

Im thinking it was the 97 Nats.. the event had been going on for a few days and for a long time, the prices just kept going up and up and up to the point it was ridiculous. The 90s were the heyday at the Nats. People were hiding in trailers to avoid the huge spectator fees. So Richard Lassiter is there with his new wife (And Id like to say for the record, she seemed like a nice woman from when I spoke with her and this story isnt a dig at her at all) and lets say his new wife had had some work done up top. Im only including this because you need to know in the payoff.

So we drive into the track either Friday or Saturday morning and you know how that drive into Beech Bend is.. trees, light poles every 10 feet, etc. Well, someone had drawn a characterture of Richard and his wife with just beyond ridiculous boobs. There was a talk bubble coming out of his mouth saying something like "Dont worry honey. After the Nationals we can get you new implants and fix up Old Blue" which was what he called his GS and at the bottom of the page with musical notes adorning it, it said "Its all about the money at the GS Nationals". These were posted on every light pole and tree for about a mile when you were driving into the track. I stopped and grabbed one and held on to it. I wish I could find it because it was classic.

To whoever pulled this off, if youre reading this, I tip my hat to you. Please email me a copy :)

IMO when the Nats started the downslide is when The Park Inn burned down. It was the host hotel and man, back in those days, it was nuts. The first year I went I didnt stay there, I stayed at the Holiday Inn by the interstate but you spent all your time at the Park Inn. The vendors were set up there in a banquet room.. Don Kizer (Anyone remember him?) was selling chips there and had all these lame books like "Understanding binary code", etc to try to make people think he knew what he was talking about. Years later it came out Don was a front for some guy that worked at GM that was doing his chips.. I have no idea who. But yea, you'd hang out at the Park Inn, people would walk around with pitchers on Long Island Ice Teas and it was a great time. I stayed there every year afterwards until it burned down and they never could capture the magic of that place anywhere else. Probably because it was laid out weird with a huge inside area you could congregate in and the rooms kind of surrounded it. If you ever saw the place, you'd understand what Im talking about.

I got a million of them.... like I said, the car is only half the story :)


Jay, man you need to write a book. Get all the necessary permission and just accept that you won't make much $$, it's for the Buick good. ;-)
 

JayC

T6P.Com/TB.com Administrator/Webmaster
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2001
GNTtype was THE source before here and if it hadnt been more or less abandoned would still be. I assume it has been anyway, I havent been there for years. Before this site, the source was gnttype and the gnttype mailing list.

Im done hashing it out with you guys. Best of luck to the guy on his film. For an outsider looking in, Im sure its a great peek into the makings of the car.
 

86brick

It's just a V6 Brick.....
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
I am looking forward to seeing this documentary and I think it is awesome that someone took the time to make it. Having said that, I really hope a few guys like Buddy Ingersoll and Bernard Santavy get a mention in this film.
 

MeanBuicks

Scaring the neighbors!
Joined
May 24, 2001
Or Darrell Waltrip and Bobby Allison. Their on track success was the genesis for the Grand National moniker.
dew11.jpg


hardees28.jpg


Our cars were rife with motorsports influence and technology having the stock car body with the 'indy car' high-tech turbo V6.
BuickV6-Indy_Racing.jpg
 
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TurboSlacker

SINISTR
Joined
May 29, 2001
Everyones input is valuable and accurate. Keep in mind our rememberence on history is very individual and offer unique insight and perspective. Let's all contribute and stay on the positive side of the conversation. This always what made our GN community so special and such a stand out from other car enthusiast communities.

Now my feelings. The GN was my poster car in high school. I graduated in 1986 so it was the greatest car at that time and already a legend. My best friend even sent my this actual poster off his wall once I bought my first GN an 86 in 1993. I didn't know crap about modifying or even basic maintenance like how to change oil! Got marry to an amazing women who loved the GN as much as me. GNs have been an integral piece of our lifestyle including raising kids and meeting great, lifelong friends.

After selling the 86GN in 1995 to buy our first "family car" it killed us not having one around. Around that same time the internet became more accessible into everyone's home and everyday life. I stumbled onto GNTYPE digest one random dat and it tranformrd my life. I consummed it every night for a couple of years before forums existed and read everything many times from the GNTTPE site. That site is the sole reason I got back into GNs and experienced them much deeper than I ever imagined. Just the free flow of information about how to maintain and modify these highly specialized cars actually gave me the confidence to wrench in my 87GN I picked up in 1999. I have taken this pure stock GN to be a local car show winner, drag racer, kid hauling fun machine, duly driver that I don't believe any other vehicle could do as well.

I owe a ton to GNTYPE site first then this great site next next in the later years. All of us GN crazies make the car the legitimate legend that it has deservedly earned.

Still loving my GN and improving it year over year for the past 13 years. The Grand National will always be a key component of who I am as a person and an integral part of my immediate family. Hard to believe its just a car...clearly it is more.
 

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