New Charger AND a Challenger R/T get 'Old-Schooled'

CadillacPat

New Member
Steve,
While in high school in the '70's, I was partial to Mustangs, especially the '69-'70 Boss 302 and Boss 429. My first car was a '65 Mustang ragtop, and my second a '70 Mustang (my third a '73 Mustang Mach 1 351 CJ after which I bought a new '83 Mercury Capri RS 5.0/5 speed, triple black). Over the years, I moved from Ford to GM, mainly because Ford didn't build a decent-looking full-sized coupe. My first GM was a '72 Olds '88 with a rocket 350. I needed more room in the car, so I sold the Capri and bought a triple black '84 Caddy Coupe. The Caddy was very clean, but had the miserable HT4100. The engine was bad anyway, with the typical of the time bad cam. I quickly installed the Olds 350 I had kept from the '88 (I still have it in my engine collection along with another and a '76 455). I carried over the headers (they fit, but I had to remove the right lower frame brace) and had a dual exhaust made. I drove this car and bought an '81 V8-6-4 car I bought for my ex. In 2000, I bought my first Caddy 500, from the boneyard, already installed in an '81 Coupe. I had only been looking for a 500, after reading the article "Torque Pig" in the July '00 issue of Hot Rod Magazine. The car was in the yard because the previous owner, a state cop, had smacked a deer and busted up the front clip, grille, core support and radiator. I repaired it, and drove the car for the next five years. I'm not going to say the car was fast, but, it definately had more than enough power to move out of it's own way (I never ran it at the track, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would get into the high 13's/low 14/s. After getting the TH400 rebuilt, the car would easily break 2nd under WOT with the stock 2.41 rear. I still had the '84, and had pulled the blown-head gasket 350 (which I still have). I still perferred the black Caddy, and installed the 500 in it. The car was rear-ended after about two years, so I pulled the engine and kept any salavagle parts and scrapped the car. Which brings me to today. I am partial to the '69-'70 Caddy convertible and '71-'73 Coupes (my current summer car is a clean, stock, '72 Coupe), mid-80's Regals, Olds 442's, Plymouth Road Runners and GTX's. I also have an '84 Coupe I brought back from Florida that I would like to buiild into a street/strip car. I'm not against the Buick turbo's, it's just that I want more torque for these heavier cars. And, like the turbos, Caddy 500's are cheap to build at moderate power levels. Even stock, a 500 makes close to 500 ft.lbs. With a mild cam like Potter Automotive's "Maximum Torque", which makes 600 ft.lbs. at 3000 rpm with only an Edelbrock Performer and a decent dual exhaust required, and rebuilt 500's like I have bought on ebay for $400-$600, you can't build so much torque for so little. Although I can build a quick Caddy for about $1100 (rebuilt '71 500 for $400 and Edelbrock Performer for $225 from ebay, new headers for a BBC truck which will work on Caddy's by changing the flanges for $50 I bought at the local CarQuest during their "sidewalk sale" of unwanted parts, and $50 for the flanges-ebay and about $375 for the cam and lifters), I want to put a little more into the car. Besides the 500 I got for about $400, I have a blue-printed '71 472 and TH400 complete with all new accessories I bought for $900 (built and test run at the GM Tech Center in Warren, MI), another '71 500 rebuilt for $600 and a 10,000 mile rebuilt 472 I just picked up for $325. All of these deals were from ebay.
Pat
 

CadillacPat

New Member
Steve,
Although I know you can get a little more performance from a GN inexpensively, moving further up as you have, doesn't it get pricy? Upon visiting some of the vendors linked to this site, I found that even the AlkyControl is $530 (although it appears state-of-the-art). Is that all that is needed to run 22 psi? Another thing that is really pricy is a racing 200R4. Transmission choice is cheap and easy for my Caddy's, but a Catch-22 for my '98 C3500 (stand-alone computer for the 4L80E or a Gear Vendors OD for a TH400, but, the 400 would still be better than the 4L80E). There have been people that use 200's in a Caddy, but at great expense and with short longentivity. Don't many of the faster GN's use a 400? What saves the 200 is less low-end torque (running less boost to start with, although I am impressed that these cars can still lift the tires and hold the trans together....but for how many passes?).
About how much does it cost to get a GN into the high 9's/low10's? If you get a chance, check out Sean Gilbert's 4200 lb.,'78 Caddy that runs these times on youtube under "Hotrod Cadillac". He really doesn't have that much money into the car, and it is extremely consistant (he's moving to Pro bracket racing-9.9 and under dial-in).

Pat
 

Raven

Here - watch THIS!
Steve,
Although I know you can get a little more performance from a GN inexpensively, moving further up as you have, doesn't it get pricy? Upon visiting some of the vendors linked to this site, I found that even the AlkyControl is $530 (although it appears state-of-the-art). Is that all that is needed to run 22 psi? Another thing that is really pricy is a racing 200R4. Transmission choice is cheap and easy for my Caddy's, but a Catch-22 for my '98 C3500 (stand-alone computer for the 4L80E or a Gear Vendors OD for a TH400, but, the 400 would still be better than the 4L80E). There have been people that use 200's in a Caddy, but at great expense and with short longentivity. Don't many of the faster GN's use a 400? What saves the 200 is less low-end torque (running less boost to start with, although I am impressed that these cars can still lift the tires and hold the trans together....but for how many passes?).
About how much does it cost to get a GN into the high 9's/low10's? If you get a chance, check out Sean Gilbert's 4200 lb.,'78 Caddy that runs these times on youtube under "Hotrod Cadillac". He really doesn't have that much money into the car, and it is extremely consistant (he's moving to Pro bracket racing-9.9 and under dial-in).

Pat

All good points that all of us motorheads are very cognizant of.

What I was referring to regarding go fast for less money is that a lot of guys have gotten a Turbo Buick into low 12's or high 11's for a lot less money than most other types of cars (other than say, a ZO6 - LOL) such as Mustangs, Camaros, etc.

Usually, a chip, a good tune, drag radials, an adjustable waste gate and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator will do it if the car is tight and the driver is solid. These can all be had for around $1000 or less, depending upon where you buy the stuff.

The 200R4 transmission if built right will run 9's and many guys are doing it.

I'm not knocking any other guy's car or what he has done. And fast Caddy's are somewhat rare except for the recent V series but then again, the initial investment would buy you several Turbo Buicks.

But - like any other car, there are always the rare ones out there going fast for low investment (what would a '78 Cadillac cost these days?) and breaking the norm. Good for them, I say!

It's all good, right? Like they say, "How fast do you want to go? How much money do you have?"

It ALL costs money. Some cars take a little less than others; some, a little (or a LOT) more. But if the owner is having fun and winning races, it does not matter if he's happy.
 
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