New-B looking for " Buick Turbo for Dummies" help

cork

Member
Yes it was. The person I got it from had it in a kit car, why?
I just noticed the pressure plate in the pictures and figured someone had a manual transmission behind it at one point. Not very common with the Turbo V-6. Great project, anxious to see it when finished.
 
well...it's back in the garage. After driving it all summer and having a blast, it's time to start the conversion! This is going to be a lot more then I even thought, but it's in. Things I can see now are, ignition moved forward to fit heater core back in ( this is WI. need heat!) factory headers and aftermarket ones won't clear for steering shaft, will need custom downpipe, gas pedal cable to short, need to check drive angles, whole fuel system to go, new rad to fit in, ect. ect.... But Hey!!, it fits!! .. Somewhat. Any ideas ( or words of encouragement) are always welcome! Thanks again for all the help from you guys with my dumb questions.
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Glad to see this project going forward! The wagon is really cool. Love it!

I want to add some things to the good advice which has already been given.

I'm speaking from experience here, having built about 6 custom turbo systems and converting several cars from carb to EFI.

To further explain the fuel system demands, I want to remember a couple things about a carburetor. It has a fuel bowl that stores a small volume of fuel. The bowl has an air vent at the top. The float valve allows fuel into the bowl to maintain the level. Even if the fuel supply to the carburetor is briefly interrupted, the fuel in the bowl will allow the engine to "ride through" the interruption. Also, if the fuel entering the carburetor has air bubbles entrained in it, the air will escape at the top of the bowl, without affecting the engine.

For the carburetor engine, the fuel sender in the gas tank has a simple tube assembly that goes towards the bottom of the tank. Some air bubbles and brief interruptions are tolerable.

For a fuel injected engine, things are different. The fuel injection system does not store any fuel. The pump must deliver the fuel in real time as the engine needs it. Also, the fuel pressure is absolutely critical. All the calculations depend on the fuel injectors having a constant and correct pressure differential from the fuel supply to the intake ports. The pump must deliver a constant, uninterrupted flow of fuel. The fuel leaving the pump has two paths. One is through the injectors and into the engine. The second path is through the regulator and back to the tank. When the injectors open and send fuel to the engine, the fuel flow is divided between the regulator and the injectors. The regulator requires a constant flow of fuel for its working fluid, and it will not regulate pressure if the fuel flow is too small, or if there are air bubbles going through the regulator.

So, in summary - the fuel injection pump must always supply a constant, uninterrupted flow of fuel, without air bubbles. The regulator must always accurately regulate this fuel pressure, in real time, as the engine demands change. The pump must be able to work against the maximum pressure required of the system, while still supplying more than the engine actually needs to burn.

So for the EFI engine, the fuel supply has a much more stringent requirement.

For cars that had a factory EFI engine, the tank has baffles and a sump in it, to provide the pump with a stable supply of fuel. I was lucky with my FWD A-body conversions, that they had a tank which was compatible with the in-tank pumps.

On my 72 Nova, it was different. The early cars had a smaller sender cap, where the pump would not fit inside the tank opening. You may find yours is the same way.

I used a small, external fuel accumulator. This is a solution which will allow you to make no modifications to your existing fuel tank, and retain a completely stock fuel tank so that replacements will be readily available if something happens. The accumulator is simply a small cylinder with 4 fuel line connections on it. There is one fuel lift pump (carburetor style pump - low pressure) which keeps the accumulator full. The fuel enters one of the side ports. The top-most port goes back to the fuel tank. Any air bubbles will return to the tank this way, in the event there is an interruption of the fuel pickup tube. The bottom port is the supply to the high pressure EFI pump, and the other side port is the return from the engine.

As for the pressure, it's pretty easy to figure out. The fuel pressure regulator has a base pressure which (if I remember) is 43 PSI for the Bosch 0 280 160 237 regulator. The design of the regulator senses boost pressure and adds this on top of the base pressure. So, if you are running 20 PSI boost, you would be making 63 PSI fuel pressure under those conditions. Therefore, the pump will be called upon to provide more flow than the engine needs (at maximum HP), while working against a 63 PSI pressure - plus the pressure drop and restrictions of the fuel filter and lines. That's a tall order for many pumps, honestly.

The LC2 engine you have is a mostly "self contained" system. Once you provide it with a solid foundation of a stable fuel system and solid electrical system - it will reward you well!

I hope this helps add to what the others have said and that I explained it clearly. :)
Sincerely,
David
 
It took a long time for the pictures to load. Your car is sure in good, rust-free shape behind the fenders. Very nice indeed.

One more question - are you going to run a manual transmission? It looks like a clutch master cylinder mounted below where the brake booster goes. If you are running a manual transmission, have you considered a recirculation valve (blow-off valve) to help cushion the pressure spike on the turbo when you close the throttle for shifting?
 

androboost4

Douglas M
Just caught this thread, good luck on your build , some great help on here for answers to your questions and
All of us for that matter. Will be following your progress so we all get better on our own builds .
Keep posting .
 
Glad to see this project going forward! The wagon is really cool. Love it!

I want to add some things to the good advice which has already been given.

I'm speaking from experience here, having built about 6 custom turbo systems and converting several cars from carb to EFI.

To further explain the fuel system demands, I want to remember a couple things about a carburetor. It has a fuel bowl that stores a small volume of fuel. The bowl has an air vent at the top. The float valve allows fuel into the bowl to maintain the level. Even if the fuel supply to the carburetor is briefly interrupted, the fuel in the bowl will allow the engine to "ride through" the interruption. Also, if the fuel entering the carburetor has air bubbles entrained in it, the air will escape at the top of the bowl, without affecting the engine.

For the carburetor engine, the fuel sender in the gas tank has a simple tube assembly that goes towards the bottom of the tank. Some air bubbles and brief interruptions are tolerable.

For a fuel injected engine, things are different. The fuel injection system does not store any fuel. The pump must deliver the fuel in real time as the engine needs it. Also, the fuel pressure is absolutely critical. All the calculations depend on the fuel injectors having a constant and correct pressure differential from the fuel supply to the intake ports. The pump must deliver a constant, uninterrupted flow of fuel. The fuel leaving the pump has two paths. One is through the injectors and into the engine. The second path is through the regulator and back to the tank. When the injectors open and send fuel to the engine, the fuel flow is divided between the regulator and the injectors. The regulator requires a constant flow of fuel for its working fluid, and it will not regulate pressure if the fuel flow is too small, or if there are air bubbles going through the regulator.

So, in summary - the fuel injection pump must always supply a constant, uninterrupted flow of fuel, without air bubbles. The regulator must always accurately regulate this fuel pressure, in real time, as the engine demands change. The pump must be able to work against the maximum pressure required of the system, while still supplying more than the engine actually needs to burn.

So for the EFI engine, the fuel supply has a much more stringent requirement.

For cars that had a factory EFI engine, the tank has baffles and a sump in it, to provide the pump with a stable supply of fuel. I was lucky with my FWD A-body conversions, that they had a tank which was compatible with the in-tank pumps.

On my 72 Nova, it was different. The early cars had a smaller sender cap, where the pump would not fit inside the tank opening. You may find yours is the same way.

I used a small, external fuel accumulator. This is a solution which will allow you to make no modifications to your existing fuel tank, and retain a completely stock fuel tank so that replacements will be readily available if something happens. The accumulator is simply a small cylinder with 4 fuel line connections on it. There is one fuel lift pump (carburetor style pump - low pressure) which keeps the accumulator full. The fuel enters one of the side ports. The top-most port goes back to the fuel tank. Any air bubbles will return to the tank this way, in the event there is an interruption of the fuel pickup tube. The bottom port is the supply to the high pressure EFI pump, and the other side port is the return from the engine.

As for the pressure, it's pretty easy to figure out. The fuel pressure regulator has a base pressure which (if I remember) is 43 PSI for the Bosch 0 280 160 237 regulator. The design of the regulator senses boost pressure and adds this on top of the base pressure. So, if you are running 20 PSI boost, you would be making 63 PSI fuel pressure under those conditions. Therefore, the pump will be called upon to provide more flow than the engine needs (at maximum HP), while working against a 63 PSI pressure - plus the pressure drop and restrictions of the fuel filter and lines. That's a tall order for many pumps, honestly.

The LC2 engine you have is a mostly "self contained" system. Once you provide it with a solid foundation of a stable fuel system and solid electrical system - it will reward you well!

I hope this helps add to what the others have said and that I explained it clearly. :)
Sincerely,
David
Thanks David for the well done info! I do know that I have the motor cranking over ( I get about 60-65 psi for the oil) and I get spark at the plugs. I am now going to start to do the tank and plumb lines up to the injectors. I also know that I get power that will feed the pump, just not sure if my injectors are getting a signal, but I have no reason to think they won't. I plan on using the aeromotive phantom unit which has the baffle system and is supposedly made to do the EFI conversion in a stock tank. I have a buddy right now making me a custom 3" stainless down pipe and system all the way to the back of the car and finishing with a Supertrapp muffler because the car is on a Ridetech air ride system and has no room for mufflers when lowered. I hope that it still sounds good but I'm just looking for a little rumble not load. If you have any other comments or suggestions, please, pleasee, let me know! Thanks again!!
 
It took a long time for the pictures to load. Your car is sure in good, rust-free shape behind the fenders. Very nice indeed.

One more question - are you going to run a manual transmission? It looks like a clutch master cylinder mounted below where the brake booster goes. If you are running a manual transmission, have you considered a recirculation valve (blow-off valve) to help cushion the pressure spike on the turbo when you close the throttle for shifting?
Thanks, it' is a super rust free car, almost unbelievable, everything unbolted without even spraying them first! It's just the master and porpotioning valve. It's hooked to a 200 4R , but not one out of a GN, with a Currie 9 inch and a Strange center with 3:55. I think after it's on the road and running right the trans is going to be my leak wink and one of the first things I'm going to have to change out.
 

WISTURBOT

New Member
Thanks! You may see it in person, I'm in Campbellsport and drive up to Fondy a lot. I may need to pick your brain for help . It's a lot easier for me to be shown things than read and figure them out!
If there is something I can help with let me know I'm west of Oakfield
 
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