need opinions on build with cam and head choices from the real fast guys

[threerail]

planning a 109 girdled motor that on paper can go 9s, but a low 10 street car with air and GOOD STREET MANNERS AND LONG TERM DURABILITY IS MY MAIN OBJECTIVE, that said, here is what i have for hardware and then i have a few options/questions that i would appreciate some input from you guys that have tried alot of similar combos, as to what to change or stay with etc. would think i could get around 600 hp to the tire with a ideal tune on alky or e85.

heres what i already have for build sitting in front of me....

109 block 020 over WITH center steel caps and girdle
JE pistons, thinking of coating sides with anti wear/anti friction treatment
turbo crank 10 10, federal mogul race bearings
two dot rods with arp bolts, polished, bushed for floating pins, weight balanced
rollmaster timing set
have champion aluminums, ported by champion,maxed to 1200 gasket, roller springs, studs
matching intake, champion ported, accufab plenum, 70mm tb
BILLET comp hyd roller, 885 lifters, 224/218 with 511 lift, OR
IRON comp hyd roller, reg lifters, 206/206 with 496 lift
T and D 1.6 roller rockers
120 trick flows for e85
80lb injectors for alky
6765 billet journal bearing or 6262 dbb turbos to choose from i already own
atr headers
all the usual small stuff
POWERLOGGER, WIDEBAND, LAPTOP, SCANMASTER, WIDEBAND CHP,ETC
art car 3400 9 inch non lock converter, hofer 200r4 trans with brake, etc

heres where i would value some opinions from you motorheads, lol...
1 my thinking so far is the first billet cam is a bit too aggressive for a street 234cu, thinking a 212/ 212 may be a ideal choice? or run the 206/? is it enough to make the power? need help on this for sure, looking
for street manners and low end power on the street?? or run one i have above?

2 im thinking compression should be about 9 to 1, maybe a tad more even if i go e85, opinions please?? leaning towards alky for availability

3 i have great heads but am i giving up long term durability over ported irons? will aluminums last for a lot of miles/seasons without excessive wear compared to irons?

4 thinking the 67 65 billet would rock on this motor, im running a 6262 dbb now, opinions on which would be better? i think i have enough converter to spool the 67 well, opinions??

5 opinions on coated bearings with dry film lubricant/anti wear coating, should i??

6 anything else you guys could add would be welcome as far as advice, thanks to all, Rob

 

[threerail]

help me out here guys, need to here from the guys that build alot of engines here, come on and tell me what u think about combo

 

[charlief1]

Won't comment on the cam but I will suggest that you'd be better off with a forged crank rather than a "turbo" crank. I'd also see if you can find a set of King bearings rather than the FM ones.

 

[threerail]

thanks for reply charlie, i would love a steel crank but im on a budget, and turbo crank is balanced to rods and pistons already. and cut 10/10. please explain the pros and cons concerning bearing choices between these and the kings and others you have tried, would appreciate it for sure, thanks

 

[charlief1]

King bearings are built like the original ones so they're tri metal and will take a beating before crank damage happens. They will deform rather than let the crank get beat on.

Not being mean but if you're on a budget save some money and decide either girdle of caps, but you don't need both. Also a 9 second build isn't one that you want to budget for. You'll need an absolutely top notch engine and that would need a forged crank if you don't wnat it to go boom. The stock crank will seriously flex and most likely break which will make the engine nothing but a pile of scrap.

 

[threerail]

Thanks Charlie, I thought the f/mogul race bearings were tri metal? Do you know of any problems with them? Any thoughts on head choice ?

 

[charlief1]

I've never used FM race bearings myself so you might see if bison or one of the builders can make a suggestion.

As far as the heads go, I'd get a set of champ aluminum or at least a set of cast ones. If you can do your own porting it's not that hard to get the heads to flow at least as much as champs. It is a time consuming thing to do but I actually like porting my own heads and I've got a set that I'm doing for a member right now. Just have to wait for 6 weeks while my hernia heals and then I'll be back to finishing them up.

 

[threerail]

Good idea, I will check on bearings some more, reread up top of post on my parts I have, I have champion ported alums, I'm hoping bison and some others will comment on cam options, and about coated bearings and pistons, etc

 

[blackgn1]

9 second power seems very risky on a stock turbo crank. It just wasn't made to do that kind of power. A 9 second engine is not going to be a budget build. Heck a 10 second build is hard to do on a budget.

 

[threerail]

Right, that's why I said my goals are really lower 10 second power ability with good street manners and overall reliability more than pushing it hard constantly, max boost will probably be 25 pounds, and not a lot of track visits

 

[threerail]

Black gn, noticed your build is very similar except heads are irons, why do you prefer them over alums? and what was your cam specs and how do you like it?

 

[pmoore4321]

Here's an inspiring video using a stock crank

tenojoe 1 year ago
109 block, stock crank and rods, Champion heads with an old ATR roller. 71S trim with a
FAST XFI.

tenojoe 1 year ago
Still a bored stock block with stock crank and rods, with Diamond Pistons, roller and alum. champion heads. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Nick Micale]

Here are some opinions and experiences that we have found over years of doing builds like your.

Our bearings of choice have always been and still are FM racing, with Clevitte second choice.

1. My cam choice would be the 212/212 roller in your case which will give you great mid-range power, and enough top end for the iron heads.

2, Your choice in compression is fine.

3. For you level of power, the choice is one of budget. Do you want to spend almost another $3K for better flow and less boost for your given power level goal of 600 HP with alum heads?

4. As far as your turbo choice, I am not a fan of billet wheels or BB center sections for street use or durability, not worth the extra $$$. I do favor the TE-45A especially with a Garrett exhaust housing which meets your main objective of "GOOD STREET MANNER AND DURABILITY"! Your converter may need an upgrade for more stall with a 66mm wheel?

5. Never used dry film on any V-6 build?

6. My choice would be going with E-85 over alky injection, especially at the power level goal.

7. Just remember, a good build is choosing the right combination of parts to work in harmony together for a given power level, and use of the car, good luck!

 

[SHADOWII]

Hey Rob, have you purchased all of this stuff, or are you just considering them? If you haven't purchased the caps, then that would be a savings towards the forged crank. It really is the critical part in the build. You should be able to sell the crank assembly and purchase the beefier parts that will last. The 212/212 is probably the better choice in cams. I run that for years on a stroker w/race ported ta/se heads and champion aluminum intake. But I don't put a lot of miles on it. If you are planning on a lot of street mileage, you might want to consider the irons.The 67/65 w/the 3400 stall should work well, don't have any experience w/that turbo, tho. Bison can give you a better acessment on that combo. C/r of 9.0 to 9.5 should do well on the street w/the fuel choices. Not familiar w/the choice of coatings, I would stick w/the proven coatings for heat/wear. Hope this helps.

 

[threerail]

thanks nick and shadow, thats some good useful info there!! i do already have all of the pieces i listed in the build above, machined and balanced, not assembled yet tho, we all agree a steel crank would be better, maybe i can find one, or a stroker kit, anyone have one lmk please. sounds like my federal mogul bearings will be a good choice. compression will be 9/9.5
you guys think like me on the ideal cam being about 212 ish in duration also. if i had a 4.1 or stroker i would run my billet 224/218 roller so if i get a stroker kit it would save me getting another cam$$ maybe.... although i know a shop that can regrind my billet one for 225 or make me a custom grind billet for 450.
i already have the killer heads listed ready to go on. the coating i mentioned for pistons and bearings is the dry film anti wear/anti friction kind many are useing with good results...less friction, a little horsepower increase too.
i do have alot invested already in these pieces i have in front of me, so my budget build terminology is hoping my now empty pockets could be getting to the light at the end of an expensive tunnel, lol. looks like im not done spending dough though!!
keep the responses coming guys, appreciate it very much, keep em coming

 

[qws2000]

looks like a nice build no matter what way you go, good luck

 

[threerail]

keep the comments coming guys, thanks