Need help with no spark and no injector pulse problem

Shawn N

The ghost of NRH
Jul 5, 2013
768
59
28
46
North Richand Hills,TX
I was cruising along and the car stalled out for about 2-3 seconds and returned to normal. A mile or so later same thing happened again except there was a gun shot loud exhaust backfire with a smoke puff out the exhaust. The idle went back up to normal within a second or two to finally stall out and die on the highway. I never had to restart the car during any of these events. After it sit a few minutes it restarted but bogged down when giving it gas and died after 5 seconds never to restart. I did the basic tests after towing it home and it had no spark. I swapped out the module with a known working spare I have and no change. Both the module and coils are a year old and both are GM units. I had it towed to my personal mechanic because I was moving and didn't want to tow it a third time if I couldn't figure it out the issue. He replaced the crank sensor, module, cam sensor cap and tried a computer (it was a open box cardone unit). The car now has neither spark or injector pulse now. That was a month ago. I bought some stuff from Casper's to test the sensors today. I hooked up the sensor tool and the LED's lit up on the unit for module power, cam sensor, and the crank sensor (go figure right). I also plugged in the cam tool which did not light up telling me it's the issue. I loosened the bolt and tried to get the cam tool to light by rotating it and nothing. We came to the conclusion to replace the cam sensor itself which I did. I did TDC and rotated the sensor 25 degrees. The cam tool lit up. I snugged the bolt down. Car wouldn't start. It still has no spark or inj pulse. I swapped the prom chip out and nothing. I'm at a loss now. I don't understand how it has one of the other and then neither but the Casper's sensor tool says they are working. I don't have a known working computer to swap out. I really don't want to throw a $150 computer at it or any more money at it at this point until I can get something solid to go on. It's a stock engine 87 TR on E-85 with a TE-44. There is no engine codes present. I am a 20+ year veteran of turbo buick's but I'm just stumped on this one guys.
 

pacecarta

MAGNA
Staff member
Aug 1, 2003
9,085
763
113
RIP racewaypark, NJ
also check that cam sensor reluctor spins when cranked (take cap off) , you did say casper ign test showed the cam sensor lit but did it blink when cranking
 

dank GN

BlackArts Automotive (661)993-8277
Jan 11, 2009
3,670
453
83
SoCal the high desert
Im bet your fuseable links are toast . Have you checked your links down at the starter ? I’ve had similar issues and what it turned out to be was the main power junction at the starter was grounding out due to being next to the hot ass crossover pipe for years and years . Have you double checked your grounds aswell? It sounds like you are just throwing money at it and hoping for a miracle. You have replaced Abunch of stuff with no fix . Check out this site and follow the no start tree . Good luck http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/troubshootgeneral.htm
 

Shawn N

The ghost of NRH
Jul 5, 2013
768
59
28
46
North Richand Hills,TX
I believe I read everything posted, has the fuel pressure been checked?
Yes fuel, fusible links, and fuses have all been checked out guys. I'm not really tossing money at it either besides the cam sensor and Casper's stuff. I know better trust me. The mechanic tossed all the stuff at and that's ok cause he can send that shit back after swapping it out. I'm really leaning towards the expiration date on a 32 year old wire harness now. Charlie would know but he's no longer with us. He saved me a few headaches over the years on crap like this.
 

captndave737

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2006
1,007
177
63
66
Raleigh, NC
I was cruising along and the car stalled out for about 2-3 seconds and returned to normal. A mile or so later same thing happened again except there was a gun shot loud exhaust backfire with a smoke puff out the exhaust. The idle went back up to normal within a second or two to finally stall out and die on the highway. I never had to restart the car during any of these events. After it sit a few minutes it restarted but bogged down when giving it gas and died after 5 seconds never to restart. I did the basic tests after towing it home and it had no spark. I swapped out the module with a known working spare I have and no change. Both the module and coils are a year old and both are GM units. I had it towed to my personal mechanic because I was moving and didn't want to tow it a third time if I couldn't figure it out the issue. He replaced the crank sensor, module, cam sensor cap and tried a computer (it was a open box cardone unit). The car now has neither spark or injector pulse now. That was a month ago. I bought some stuff from Casper's to test the sensors today. I hooked up the sensor tool and the LED's lit up on the unit for module power, cam sensor, and the crank sensor (go figure right). I also plugged in the cam tool which did not light up telling me it's the issue. I loosened the bolt and tried to get the cam tool to light by rotating it and nothing. We came to the conclusion to replace the cam sensor itself which I did. I did TDC and rotated the sensor 25 degrees. The cam tool lit up. I snugged the bolt down. Car wouldn't start. It still has no spark or inj pulse. I swapped the prom chip out and nothing. I'm at a loss now. I don't understand how it has one of the other and then neither but the Casper's sensor tool says they are working. I don't have a known working computer to swap out. I really don't want to throw a $150 computer at it or any more money at it at this point until I can get something solid to go on. It's a stock engine 87 TR on E-85 with a TE-44. There is no engine codes present. I am a 20+ year veteran of turbo buick's but I'm just stumped on this one guys.
This doesn't sound right. You have to set the Crank Shaft to 25 deg. After TDC and then set the cam sensor by rotating the cam sensor counter clockwise.
 
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ttypewhite

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2001
3,181
496
83
46
Toronto
I have a couple things for you to check out. First thing I would do is look at all the grounds behind the intake or cylinder head. Mak sure that they are all still connected and nothing corroded and broke free. 2nd, I would check your connection at the ecu, look at your terminals for corrosion or pin alignment. Sometimes not all terminals in the connectors make contact, some actually pull out as you try to lock the terminal on the ecu. 3rd is by checking the grounds by the ignition module, these grounds also run to the ecu. If you can not see a ground, slice into one of those wires and ground it to the head or intake. 4th would be to pull the cam sensor and check the gear to make sure it isn't worn out really bad and skipping a tooth, also check the pin in the cam sensor as well to make sure it is seated properly. Your issues is ignition related. If all checks out, you have to start probing wires from the ignition module to the cam sensor and crank sensor. You might have a broke wire under the loom of the wire that is giving you a intermittent signal. Look on gnttype.org for schematics to verify what each wire should read. My guess would be a bad ground somewhere in the areas I suggested. Good luck, and try to stay calm....your going to get really pissed through this process.
 
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michael evans

Active Member
Feb 27, 2008
850
82
28
Louisville, Kentucky
I went through something like you described about a year ago. I was ready to throw a match on it and walk away.

Like you, all the little checks were good and at first there was no reason for it.

It turns out for the wire from the CCCI fuse in the main distribution box to the module connector had gone bad with corrosion and would let 12 volts show but would not carry any current.

Going by memory, pin "M" on the plug get 12 volts from the fuse.

Download a wire schematic on line like I did.

So my Air Force training paid off and no longer will I troubleshoot with a meter on the T Type but with a amperage light.

Fast forward the fix was to replace the engine wiring harness with a Caspers replacement.

If you want to remain the look of factory keep the flat plastic as it has been discontinued by everyone.
 
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