BoostMasterK
2 boys now, need more GNs
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
"...and the coolest Buick since the GNX" Sadly I think it's in reference to their new minivan-XUV thinger 
Motor Trend cover this month says...
- Thread starter BoostMasterK
- Start date
personally, I hope they don't call it a "Grand National" or a "GN" since that name refers to the Grand National racing series which Buick hasn't had anything to do with for a long time. IMO, they sould stick with "Gran Sport" or "GS". If they want to make a high-performance version, bring back the "GSX" name.
just my $0.02.
just my $0.02.
I DISAGREE. I LIKE THE NAME GRAND NATIONAL, AND THE BADGING. WHEN I THINK OF MODERN DAY GS'S I VISUALIZE NOTHING BUT THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE MODELS!!
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
well, what's faster in showroom stock condition- a '70 GSX, or an 87 GNX?
I have driven both,
If the GSX is a Stage-1 the GNX will be looking at its taillights.
Them Stage-1 cars are pretty quick.
WELL IN THIS CASE I AGREE WITH YOU IF THE NEW CAR IS FWD. BUT IF ITS A REAL NICE DESIGN AND IT MAKES GOOD POWER, LOOKS GOOD, AND IS REAR WHEEL DRIVE, WHY NOT CALL IT A GN?
QuickBuick87
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
Ummmmm.........The best 1/4 mile time i've seen from the old magazines of the day was a 13.41 for the 1970 GS Stage-1. I forgot the magazine but this number has been reported through the years in different magazines. The 87 GNX ran 13.20's - 13.40's depending on the driver. I think it would be a very close race with the GNX taking 3 out of 4 match races. That's pretty amazing considering the Stage-1 was basically a factory built race motor, and the GNX with it's little 231ci V6 was the little engine that could!!
MeanBuicks
Scaring the neighbors!
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I second that opinion. Matter of fact, I thought that Buick was looking back even further in its history and contemplating reviving the 'Super' moniker for the future upscale models. Hmmm.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
take those 2 stock cars and put slicks on them and see what happens.
then put better than stock exhaust on them and see what happens.
i've got a feeling that 455 inches of Buick big block power will do a more than adequate job of dealing with the little V6 in the GNX.
i've never ridden in a GNX, but i have ridden in a stock 70 stage 2 GS, and that thing was brutal. i can't imagine what a GSX was like..
vicious6
Turbo Regal Obsessed
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
Ahhh, it seems you have much to learn novaderrik.
1- Never underestimate the power of a TR.
2-You say you rode in a "stock" Stage 2? Funny that all Stage 2 parts were only available over the counter at Buick dealers.
3-You said you could only imagine what a GSX would run like. The top engine option on a GSX was a Stage 1 455.
1- Never underestimate the power of a TR.
2-You say you rode in a "stock" Stage 2? Funny that all Stage 2 parts were only available over the counter at Buick dealers.
3-You said you could only imagine what a GSX would run like. The top engine option on a GSX was a Stage 1 455.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
the stage 1 was better than the stage 2, correct? that's the way i'm remembering it.
i need to do me some research, but i'm recalling that the GS came with stage 2 parts, and the GSX came with the "over the counter" stage 1 parts factory installed. kind of like going from a GN to a GNX- mechanically identical, except for a few minor "bolt ons".
but given a choice, i'll put my money on the brutality of cubic inches over the refined thrust of a turbo.
i'm talking stock to stock here, with maybe modern tires on both to hook thinngs up.
i need to do me some research, but i'm recalling that the GS came with stage 2 parts, and the GSX came with the "over the counter" stage 1 parts factory installed. kind of like going from a GN to a GNX- mechanically identical, except for a few minor "bolt ons".
but given a choice, i'll put my money on the brutality of cubic inches over the refined thrust of a turbo.
i'm talking stock to stock here, with maybe modern tires on both to hook thinngs up.
The Blob
Amorphous... totally
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
The GSX was just an appearance package. It had the same engine as any other GS... either the standard 455 or the Stage 1. Most had the Stage 1.
for being a few cu.in from double the 231's size, it's not so clear cut a victory. gn's aren't known for handling (even dave maclellan agrees) but they could sure out handle the gs. plus the other things that make a street car a joy to drive. and you have an 11 second car with 'bolt ons'.
Dreamcar86
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
for now...there are rumours that the gn will come back in 2010 on the zeta platform with a turbo 3.6 sidi dohc
What they need to do is stick with the 3.8 VVT DOHC and stick a twin turbo setup and AWD. This way traction is no longer an issue and you have a handling car and a drag strip car that can hook. A factory installed front mount would also be a nice addition.
i'd prefer the 3.6. here's why: it won't produce quite as much torque - less wheel spin.
the rod/stroke ratio will be much better. it will rev quicker and 6% higher. the turbo ecotec redlines at 6500, but a pcm change raises that to 7200.
the smaller crank is stronger.
the 3.8 isn't out yet, and will be more expensive in low numbers (just for a turbo regal). however, it would be nostalgic.
with the biopower 2.8 turbo (in saabs) making 280 hp, i expect 360 hp. i wouldn't put it past the sidi turbo 3.6 to get 30 mpg. with 2 variable nozzle turbos, the torque curve will be flat from 2000 to 5000 rpm. and with e-85, a reprogrammed vcm, maybe new turbo(s), what could it hit? (where will the di max out?)
the rod/stroke ratio will be much better. it will rev quicker and 6% higher. the turbo ecotec redlines at 6500, but a pcm change raises that to 7200.
the smaller crank is stronger.
the 3.8 isn't out yet, and will be more expensive in low numbers (just for a turbo regal). however, it would be nostalgic.
with the biopower 2.8 turbo (in saabs) making 280 hp, i expect 360 hp. i wouldn't put it past the sidi turbo 3.6 to get 30 mpg. with 2 variable nozzle turbos, the torque curve will be flat from 2000 to 5000 rpm. and with e-85, a reprogrammed vcm, maybe new turbo(s), what could it hit? (where will the di max out?)
You decide
I have a few cars and race them. My 1970 Stage 1, all original, on street radials, went 14.2 first time out. Just adding headers and slicks reduced this to 13.4. I have a GN, and on factory tires, with 500 miles on it in 1987, it went 14.4. My GNX ran the quickest stock, with a 13.4. My Stage 1 now runs 12.3 in factory appearing, stock tire class. My GN ran a best of 11.7. Stage 2s were dealer installed parts, and were mostly meant for the track. It would lose a bit on the bottom end, and scream at the high rpms, due to heads, cam, headers, and intake.
I have a few cars and race them. My 1970 Stage 1, all original, on street radials, went 14.2 first time out. Just adding headers and slicks reduced this to 13.4. I have a GN, and on factory tires, with 500 miles on it in 1987, it went 14.4. My GNX ran the quickest stock, with a 13.4. My Stage 1 now runs 12.3 in factory appearing, stock tire class. My GN ran a best of 11.7. Stage 2s were dealer installed parts, and were mostly meant for the track. It would lose a bit on the bottom end, and scream at the high rpms, due to heads, cam, headers, and intake.
In pure stock condition, I'd have to lean toward the GSX in the 1/4 mile.
Two factors, though:
1. Final drive ratio: The 200-4R has the overdrive advantage for top end, helping the GNX. Some of the GSX's had stiff gearing, like 4.11:1, in the rear axle, causing great, low 1/4 mile time, but limits to the top end for like 1/2 mile races.
2. The GNX had a speed limiter built into the stock ECM chip, causing fuel cutoff above 125 mph.
So, both could have problems in the 1/2 mile, in stock form, again depending on the axle ratio of the GSX.
When you start talking Stage 2 455, remember Buick made only like 50 sets of those 455 heads. T/A is now making replicas of them, though. But, there weren't too many GNX's made, either.
But, we know there's TONS of things for the Turbo 3.8L, as well.
Two factors, though:
1. Final drive ratio: The 200-4R has the overdrive advantage for top end, helping the GNX. Some of the GSX's had stiff gearing, like 4.11:1, in the rear axle, causing great, low 1/4 mile time, but limits to the top end for like 1/2 mile races.
2. The GNX had a speed limiter built into the stock ECM chip, causing fuel cutoff above 125 mph.
So, both could have problems in the 1/2 mile, in stock form, again depending on the axle ratio of the GSX.
When you start talking Stage 2 455, remember Buick made only like 50 sets of those 455 heads. T/A is now making replicas of them, though. But, there weren't too many GNX's made, either.
But, we know there's TONS of things for the Turbo 3.8L, as well.
