Morel lifters are loud

Tori

Active Member
my starter just shit the bed, figure while i'm at it i'll replace with a cool guy gear reduction starter. I know i don't need it, but i like the way they sound......

Anyway, anyone using one ? I tried to search for info on them here, but only came up with 3 posts from 10+ years ago.
 

precizion818

Well-Known Member
I’m using one..... no downside for me in the last 7 years. You do have to get used to the different sound at first. Easy install and lightweight to handle while on your back under the call.

Picked mine up from Advance Auto Parts


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1986 Buick GX1

GX1 #001 [The One and Only]
I saved this from a couple years ago.

LT4 starter from a ‘96 Corvette Grand Sport and bolts.

100_2300.JPG

It seems you may have to extend some of the wire though.

I’m going this route when my el cheepo SBC mini starter gives up the ghost.
 

precizion818

Well-Known Member
I saved this from a couple years ago.

LT4 starter from a ‘96 Corvette Grand Sport and bolts.

View attachment 354826
It seems you may have to extend some of the wire though.

I’m going this route when my el cheepo SBC mini starter gives up the ghost.

That’s what I used..... also a good point as I think there was a bolt that you have to purchase to bolt up the starter. Also may need to enlarge the wire lug hole to fit on the electrical connection.


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Ttype6

Well-Known Member
figure while i'm at it i'll replace with a cool guy gear reduction starter.
1994-1996 Buick Roadmaster. This starter is from the PMGR series of starters that Delco Remy produced.
Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction Starter. Specifically the Roadmasters came with one of the PMGR starters in the PG260 group. There are seven versions in that group designated by different suffixes. The Roadmasters received the PG260M version,so if you search for a Roadmaster starter or a PG260M starter,you will find the correct starter. The PG in PG260M stands for Planetary Gear. The M refers to the style of nosecone,style of motor body,type of drive assembly,internal gear reduction parts,and internal motor parts.

 

reggie44

Active Member
Ttype6... just my 2 cents but be careful with those super cheap starter motors and alternators... as you probably know it's all off shore (China) disposable junk. I work for Caterpillar Diesel and we build all our own starter motors... for example some of the starter motors we build (by hand) and not on a assembly line are 24V, 36V and even 64V for locomotive applications. The average starter we build weighs about 100 lbs and this would be the most common 24V starter we make that fits most CAT Industrial V8's and some V12's and TWO starters on a V16 - which is used in a CAT 795F open pit mining truck.

Let me give you a real world example... the 24V 'old school' Delco-Remy (they were originally made in Anderson, Indiana) back in the day - direct drive starter motors that weigh about 100 lbs are used on all kinds of different public transit buses from Detroit Diesel, CAT, Cummins etc... most tech's hate replacing them because they are so heavy - BUT - they are heavy for a reason because they last. The cost of a starter like this would be around $800.00. You get a bean counter (non tech) that gets sold on a cheap off shore gear reduction starter because they are half the price and the techs love them as they only weigh about 35 lbs (vs 100lbs). BUT here's where it hurts - like the old Fram Oil Filter saying - 'Pay a Little now or a lot later"... driver turns the bus off and then goes to restart it on a 90 degree plus day and the starter just clicks (if that) because it's a cheap gear reduction starter... sometimes it will take out some teeth on the flywheel but usually just the alternator and batteries if they keep trying to crank it.

So the bus has to get towed back to the garage (about $1K to tow the bus) and then replace the starter with the 'old school' 100lb direct drive unit. So the $400.00 bucks the bean counter thought he was saving just cost $3 grand to replace - IF - the batteries and alternator didn't get toasted as well. I have seen entire transit authorities change back to 'old school' starters - 500 plus buses - because the gear reductions were cheap and disposable.

All the parts I use and source are Made in the U.S.A. - not offshore - it costs us three to four times to build the starter but they last and for a reason. I deal with the suppliers that build all the off shore China junk for Walmart, Pepboys, Autozone and it's all about the numbers - not - quality.

You get what you pay for. :cool:
 

hflwyo

Active Member
Ttype6... just my 2 cents but be careful with those super cheap starter motors and alternators... as you probably know it's all off shore (China) disposable junk. I work for Caterpillar Diesel and we build all our own starter motors... for example some of the starter motors we build (by hand) and not on a assembly line are 24V, 36V and even 64V for locomotive applications. The average starter we build weighs about 100 lbs and this would be the most common 24V starter we make that fits most CAT Industrial V8's and some V12's and TWO starters on a V16 - which is used in a CAT 795F open pit mining truck.

Let me give you a real world example... the 24V 'old school' Delco-Remy (they were originally made in Anderson, Indiana) back in the day - direct drive starter motors that weigh about 100 lbs are used on all kinds of different public transit buses from Detroit Diesel, CAT, Cummins etc... most tech's hate replacing them because they are so heavy - BUT - they are heavy for a reason because they last. The cost of a starter like this would be around $800.00. You get a bean counter (non tech) that gets sold on a cheap off shore gear reduction starter because they are half the price and the techs love them as they only weigh about 35 lbs (vs 100lbs). BUT here's where it hurts - like the old Fram Oil Filter saying - 'Pay a Little now or a lot later"... driver turns the bus off and then goes to restart it on a 90 degree plus day and the starter just clicks (if that) because it's a cheap gear reduction starter... sometimes it will take out some teeth on the flywheel but usually just the alternator and batteries if they keep trying to crank it.

So the bus has to get towed back to the garage (about $1K to tow the bus) and then replace the starter with the 'old school' 100lb direct drive unit. So the $400.00 bucks the bean counter thought he was saving just cost $3 grand to replace - IF - the batteries and alternator didn't get toasted as well. I have seen entire transit authorities change back to 'old school' starters - 500 plus buses - because the gear reductions were cheap and disposable.

All the parts I use and source are Made in the U.S.A. - not offshore - it costs us three to four times to build the starter but they last and for a reason. I deal with the suppliers that build all the off shore China junk for Walmart, Pepboys, Autozone and it's all about the numbers - not - quality.

You get what you pay for. :cool:
I bought one of those cheap starters from DB electrical and within a couple weeks of installing it, it started to stick and stay engaged when cranking even after the car was started. The ok only way
 

hflwyo

Active Member
I bought one of those cheap starters from DB electrical and within a couple weeks of installing it, it started to stick and stay engaged when cranking even after the car was started. The ok only way
The only way I could get it to stop is disconnect the battery. Bought a LT4 starter and problem free since
 

Ttype6

Well-Known Member
they are heavy for a reason because they last.
I don't like that you are comparing gear reduction starters from a different industry to the ones used in millions of american cars. All direct drive starters are heavier than their gear reduction counterparts because they need bigger motors because they are direct drive. The gear reduction starter doesn't need as powerful a motor because of the mechanical leverage created by the direct gear reduction drive in the case of the LT4 starter or the planetary and stationary gears in the case of the PMGR starters. That is why they are lighter than the direct drive starters. Their weight is not a reflection of their quality.
 

Ttype6

Well-Known Member
I prefer the stock ones ... they are much easier on the flywheel teeth :ROFLMAO:
There is nothing inherently wrong with the size,shape and number of teeth on the drive of the correct PMGR starter for our cars,thePG260M.
The best part of the stock starter is that it turns the engine over much faster. Many people falsely believe the gear reduction starters turn the engine over faster.
 

Ttype6

Well-Known Member
I bought one of those cheap starters from DB electrical and within a couple weeks of installing it, it started to stick and stay engaged when cranking even after the car was started. The ok only way
I've had 2 of them fail,but it was because of the parts related to the gear reduction part of the starters. Both times I got my car running by re-installing the original starter that I still have which still works perfectly after I replaced the brushes twice over the years. Then I went to a salvage yard and purchased an LT4 starter for $50.00. Then during this winter I educated myself about the PMGR starters,found a source for parts,and rebuilt my old mini starter. I just recently re-installed my engine and will be using this starter again. I do however love and highly recommend the LT4 starter.
 
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