ignition help

[MY T FAST]

gents,
forgive me if this gets long, but i'm gonna try to describe my predicament to the best of my ability via computer.

i just installed alky, raised the boost to 23psi and 2 days later my autozone coil starts missing (no surprise) i bought a used but known good delco coil pack/module off of a board member and i put it on. no more stumble and miss at random at 10 in/hg, runs smooth as a top up to ~15psi, after 15 tho, it lays over. with the cutout closed, no sounds are audible, it just stops accelerating, so i opened the cutout and whoa! lots of sound. the best way to describe it, it sounds like a drag car, at the staging light, bouncing off the launch control rev limiter. it bogs and and stops revving/accelerating at 15psi every time. but anything less than 15, she runs like a champ without the slighest problem. this is leading me to believe that the different coil/module is not the culprit. my question is this: 1) why would this problem not surface with the old AZ coil, and how are the problems so different with only a coil/module change? sorry if this is too vague to do anything with, but i'd like to get this solved before BPG next weekend, and i really really can't afford to just throw parts at it, (or i would have already). any insight y'all might be able to share is greatly appreciated.
thank you much!!
Talon

 

[WSLN 6]

How high do you have the alky set? With a stock turbo you may be bogging down the motor with alky/not enough air flowing.
You could also try some race gas and turn off the alky to try and narrow it down.
Any knock?

 

[Amelio]

gents,
forgive me if this gets long, but i'm gonna try to describe my predicament to the best of my ability via computer.

i just installed alky, raised the boost to 23psi and 2 days later my autozone coil starts missing (no surprise) i bought a used but known good delco coil pack/module off of a board member and i put it on. no more stumble and miss at random at 10 in/hg, runs smooth as a top up to ~15psi, after 15 tho, it lays over. with the cutout closed, no sounds are audible, it just stops accelerating, so i opened the cutout and whoa! lots of sound. the best way to describe it, it sounds like a drag car, at the staging light, bouncing off the launch control rev limiter. it bogs and and stops revving/accelerating at 15psi every time. but anything less than 15, she runs like a champ without the slightest problem. this is leading me to believe that the different coil/module is not the culprit. my question is this: 1) why would this problem not surface with the old AZ coil, and how are the problems so different with only a coil/module change? sorry if this is too vague to do anything with, but i'd like to get this solved before BPG next weekend, and i really really can't afford to just throw parts at it, (or i would have already). any insight y'all might be able to share is greatly appreciated.
thank you much!!
Talon

This seems to be a pretty commonly asked question, I have been watching this board for a few months now and I have seen this exact description at least 10 times if not more. Also since I am fighting the same problem it gives me other areas to look.

I have the exact same issue up to 15psi runs great anything over it falls on its face and backfire. I am pretty sure it is in the ignition whether it is my module or wires being the culprit I don't know. My financial situation at the moment allows me to put gas in the car and that's about it, so I keep the boost around 14psi and cruise.

here is what you can check that does not cost anything and is a possible point.
Check all your grounds and wires for weak connections frays etc.
Check voltage output from the alternator should be 14.2 volts or better.
Ohm out your coil pack should not be more than 12.5 homs between posts.
Make sure all inter cooler piping clamps are good ant not leaking under boost.
Check your crank sensor to ensure it is not hitting.
verify your cam sensor is tight and has not moved.
check the condition of your plugs should look good and gaped at .030-.032
Check the condition of your wires, this is my suspected culprit on my car, if I am cruising at 2krpms in o.d I can hear the car missing you cant feel it but I can hear it especially pulling a hill and it does not down shift. My wires look good and ohmed out well but it is hard to know what it is doing under increased load.

I also have changed coils and the only constant is the module and wires, between the @ cp the problem changed slightly as you described your did. This is why I point my finger at the wires because they go on and off so many times during this process.

Take a cruise as I described above in O.d low rpms and put it under a small load like pulling a hill you may hear it miss and that may get you closer to finding the issue.

good luck.

 

[MY T FAST]

thank you both for your responses.
i tried turning the alky down to 2 and running it up to 15, same problem.

the reason i'm so confused is because with the old coil pack, it would miss randomly under no load, and pretty badly under heavy load, but i could still stutteringly get to 22 psi (no knock ever on SM).

now, with a known good, delco pack/module, the miss/bad coil problem goes away, but a new, seemingly unrelated problem erupts.

ps: amelio you said yours has a backfire involved, no backfire in mine yet, just the bog. maybe i get out of it too quick to let it backfire, but there hasn't been any yet.

thanks again for the advice, boys. keep it coming
Talon

 

[Razor]

What are the O2 levels when it does this?

Typically when its a bad ignition, it pops/backfires. If the car doesnt pull.. then its too rich typically or plugged up.. like a restrictoive exhuast.

I have seen air filters clog and the motor lay over. Just becuase its a K&N doesnt mean it cant clog.

Weak valve springs will also do this.

If your concerned with the ignition module swap it back out.

lastly, dont go lower than 5 on the blue knob. If you want to lean it out, dont reduce alky.. reduce fuel. Your BL numbers will tell you if your rich.

And reset the computer.. that brings the chip to factory defaults.

 

[MY T FAST]

Thanks Julio. i'll remember the alky thing.

my wideband reads right around 9.8-10.0. so i know its rich, but its not too rich to cause THAT much bog i don't think. i checked the plugs, gapped em all to .028-029.

again, not to sound like a broken record here, but it was fine with the old coil/module for ~3 days. then i swapped out the coil/module and this 15psi bog starts. i just swapped the old one back on, and its same as before, random misfires at cruise (~12in/hg) and heavy misfire under load, but no heavy, all encompassing bog at <15psi.

i'm so dern confused!?!?! i guess i'm just gonna save my pennies and buy a new delco coil/module and see if that clears it up. i'm still up for suggestions tho. thanks boys.
Talon

 

[Amelio]

ok so if I am understanding correctly and I may not cause I got a few beers in me:biggrin: you have swapped 2 different coil packs and modules and you still have an issue.......... look else where for the problem....also you state a random misfire at cruise. This is the same as my car and I am really suspecting wires to be the culprit> they are about 7-8 years old and I need to replace them just don't have the coin at the moment....how old are your wires?

 

[jdub]

had similar problem

It turned out to be a bad number one wire. Under visual inspection first time the boot was perfect. Thinking it was a bad cam or valve springs. Changed plugs and wires. After pullingnumber one wire I seen a pin hole took flashlight into the boot no light through pin hole. It puzzled me untied I squeezed the pinhole the boot collapsed. The car has been running fine since. The spare motor will stay in place until hybrid is ready for transplant by the way I was getting high o2 counts through the condition. Hope twilight help good luck to you.

 

[MY T FAST]

yes you're understanding this correctly, autozone coil worked great for about 8 months. added alky and upped the boost, now i'm getting the misfire. bought a known good, used coil/module off a board member, can't boost over 15 or car bogs like crazy.

i was leaning towards wires myself. bought the car little over 2 yrs ago, never changed the wires myself so i don't know how old they are. looks like new plugs and wires are in order. i'll report back with my results. thanks gents.

Talon

 

[TurboBuRick]

I would be taking a close look at the crank sensor. How old is it? Has it been replaced?
Make sure it's not getting hit by the wheel. Also make sure the balancer is tight, tight
Make sure the sensor is not cocked. Make sure the wheel is not too deep in the sensor. It all makes a difference.
Look at this very carefully and take your time. In some cases the sensor bracket may need modification to be perfect.
The sensor should be gaped .020-.025 or so. Main thing is it's not making contact with the wheel.
Need to rotate the crank and check gap all three blades that pass through.

HTH

 

[gnray76]

you have the same problem as I do, but no alky... but mine is at 20lbs. boost and falls on its face, never backfires, never drops pressure, never have any knock. then other times its a raped ape!! and then others it bucks to get up to 20. I replaced my fuel pump and added a hotwire and didn't start this till 2 weeks after. and all my read outs are good too. runs great driving normal, passing, but flooring..... I have been chasing for weeks now and my dibs so far is the IM, only thing I haven't replaced...Ill let you know what I find....

 

[gnray76]

took car out today, just before I got back home (within a mile) started missing at idle... finally something came up!!! runs fine off idle too, and guess what? found my crank sensor rubbing.... so I got a give a thanks to ya rick, the last time mine touched the wheel that was it! why I never suspected to even look, cause there were no signs till the missing started....
crank sensor, give it a look!!!!!!!!!!!!!