Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
Did you guys clean them out at all after making the switch? Do you guys ship them in yearly? I heard you shouldn't be able to clog up 120's at all...is there any truth to that? Thanks - Jason
How often are you (E85)guys cleaning your injectors?
- Thread starter Rafs-T-Type
- Start date
Firechaser
V8-2 cylinders=2x the $
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2010
My 120's never saw anything but E85...I pulled them after 2 years to upgrade the fuel rails. They looked just fine, a little bit of "whitening" on the metal I guess from the E85 but nothing else visible. Popped them back in and all was well. I also inspected my rubber -10 line....that looked great too after 2 years so I am still running that as well.
Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
A little whitening caused quite an issue in my filters. There was a noticeable difference in IDC after a cleaning. Fuel pressure too. A little whitening is now a scary thing to me
. Seriously though that makes me want to ship them out. Too much money to loose not doing it. Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
Are you saying run a tank of 93 to clean out the injectors?
PLAINWHITE T
Tree peddler
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2010
subscribed...very good topic.
Scott Atk
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Exactly. I have no practical experience with this, just something I read.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
The theory is that the injector is so big that any particles would flow when the was opened 100%.
It sounds logical to me.
It sounds logical to me.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
In the FWIW dept:
A. The culprit w/ most "clogged" injectors is, either the filter basket is full of crud, or the internal parts are rusted from water/sitting in them. Think JY engines. [99% of all injs I've done in the last 17 yrs are 1 or the other.]
B. An inj does not open just part of the way...Kinda like being pregnant... Are or aren't. So, crud could cause a partial opening, and fake one out at an idle, or low load duty cycle operation.
C. The biggest alky issue I've seen, is with 100% methanol, in the 10.5 cars. It will attack alum tanks, degrade the interior of rubber hose, collect water, and generally plug up the inj baskets.
Some suggested cures:
Hard anodizing of all interior surfaces of rails, tanks.
Use of teflon lines.
Use of 2-3 inline filters, and removal of filter baskets in the injs. [These guys are using MONSTER injs, that will pass "kidney stone" sized crud!
As for the E85 injs, I've not seen serious issues w/ them.
The purchase of an otoscope, from the bag, is a good tool to inspect the filter baskets, and read spark plugs.. Bout $30 for a good 1 w/ a hi intensity LED, and a magnifier lens. [You DO read plugs, right??]
Here's a couple pics of a set of injs that were deemed junk.. Cost the guy an engine. I wonder why......
The before and after pics are of as received, and with the baskets removed. [The injs were not yet cleaned.] BTW, these are out of a Supra..No Buick guy would do this!
A. The culprit w/ most "clogged" injectors is, either the filter basket is full of crud, or the internal parts are rusted from water/sitting in them. Think JY engines. [99% of all injs I've done in the last 17 yrs are 1 or the other.]
B. An inj does not open just part of the way...Kinda like being pregnant... Are or aren't. So, crud could cause a partial opening, and fake one out at an idle, or low load duty cycle operation.
C. The biggest alky issue I've seen, is with 100% methanol, in the 10.5 cars. It will attack alum tanks, degrade the interior of rubber hose, collect water, and generally plug up the inj baskets.
Some suggested cures:
Hard anodizing of all interior surfaces of rails, tanks.
Use of teflon lines.
Use of 2-3 inline filters, and removal of filter baskets in the injs. [These guys are using MONSTER injs, that will pass "kidney stone" sized crud!
As for the E85 injs, I've not seen serious issues w/ them.
The purchase of an otoscope, from the bag, is a good tool to inspect the filter baskets, and read spark plugs.. Bout $30 for a good 1 w/ a hi intensity LED, and a magnifier lens. [You DO read plugs, right??]
Here's a couple pics of a set of injs that were deemed junk.. Cost the guy an engine. I wonder why......
The before and after pics are of as received, and with the baskets removed. [The injs were not yet cleaned.]
BTW, these are out of a Supra..No Buick guy would do this!
Last edited:
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
Chuck, do you suggest a certain number of miles or months or years when a guy should have his injectors cleaned? And is that maint period any diff between a 91 car and an e85 car? I guess the answer would be different for a daily car vs a few day a month vehicle? And one last question; do you see any good fuel injector cleaner to maintain injectors out there?
For some the tips will get a gunk resin type build up on them restricting and messing up the spray pattern on them... With tuning this fuel for 7+ years on many different applications, injectors that are from little 440cc to 2200cc etc i've seen this a lot. And whats odd is some cars get it and some don't..... Don't know if its the station/mix or what exactly that causes this gunk at the tips of the injectors AND where it sprays which can get into the intake ports of your cylinder heads.... nothing has ever been 100% solid on the reason for this in the E85 world as i know and i run it daily and have for years, but id assume its how its blended if i were a betting man. What i DO know is soaking the tips in regular ol 87-93 octane pump gas dissolves the gunk. I've spent many evenings soaking the tips of injectors in gas and finishing off the job with a simple tooth brush and a cup of regular gasoline. So what i have been doing for years now is..
1 Don't ever let a car with E85 in it set for long periods of time 2-3+ months as it does attract moister as alcohol does, and can cause rust build up.
2 Run a tank or 2 of 87-93 regular ol pump gas through it every few months and it cleans em right up from any of the build up that "some" get.
IMHO these are VERY small prices to pay for a fuel that cost less then 87 octane pump gas and will from my personal experience MEET or EXCEED in many cases the power of 15$ a gallon VP C-16 fuel and spool a turbo a little faster as well with lower cylinder temperatures.
1 Don't ever let a car with E85 in it set for long periods of time 2-3+ months as it does attract moister as alcohol does, and can cause rust build up.
2 Run a tank or 2 of 87-93 regular ol pump gas through it every few months and it cleans em right up from any of the build up that "some" get.
IMHO these are VERY small prices to pay for a fuel that cost less then 87 octane pump gas and will from my personal experience MEET or EXCEED in many cases the power of 15$ a gallon VP C-16 fuel and spool a turbo a little faster as well with lower cylinder temperatures.
Toby_Goodmk
Test Fit officianto
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
I am bumping this thread as it was from a couple years ago and had some good stuff in it. Seeing if any other experiences noticed like I have with mine. I have run 10 or more tanks of E85. I have no goo at the end of the injector. I do have a little goo build up on the stem of valves that I noticed when performing a HG change out. Also noticed that the surface of the ports had a stickiness to them.
jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
I have seen that on 3 E-85 car I built. I just sent out all three sets of injectors to be cleaned and flowed. 80' 120's and 160's. I cant wait to see the results.
jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
I have seen that on 3 E-85 car I built. I just sent out all three sets of injectors to be cleaned and flowed. 80' 120's and 160's. I cant wait to see the results.
Toby_Goodmk
Test Fit officianto
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
I was looking at some lucas E85 fuel treatment. It claims only an ounce needed for 5 gallons at a time. Cost at wally world was 8.79. Maybe worth looking into using.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
it's probably corn starch............
Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
Fill us in on the #'s when you get them. Thanks.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
In the few years we have used e-85, in my cars a lot of local owners use an additive, either Stabil 360 or Driven from Joe Gibbs.
I did a lot of research into e-85 use, and discussed in person the potential issues about the us and care of e-85 with the tech reps from each of those companies.
Without getting into a detailed technical discussion, one important factor with e-85 and gasoline, there is an additive used by all that allows proper integration and blending of gasoline and alcohol. This is an expensive chemical that is added to the blend at the refinery, and more of this ingredient, and other chemicals are used in both aftermarket additives for protection especially from water.
For me, I use an additive in my e-85 cars at every fill up we have yes to see any build-up on injectors?
I was getting a lot of goo on the injector tips. I also had a great amount of oil in my intake. The oil was entering the intake between the gaskets and mating surfaces and saturated every square inch of the inside of my intake and dripped off of my Powerplate. It was because I had milled the intake in the past when I used the RJC steel gaskets. Forgetting that I had done this,I went back to the original thicker head gaskets. Doing this enabled the leak. My new engine uses a different intake and is as dry as dry can get on the inside now. I use the same E85 as I did before and have zero goo on the injectors now. I do see some stickyness in the intake ports and what lookes like dried oil residue in some of the intake ports in the bowl area. It has to be from the E85. My combustion chambers and exhaust ports are cleaner than they ever where when I ran gasoline
If you compare ethanol to gasoline,you will find that gasoline is relatively dirty and ethanol is relatively clean. The problems associated with E85 generally occur after the fuel leaves the fuel line and enters a carburetor bowl or after it leaves a fuel injector. I would expect the fuel injectors of an E85 fuel system to have less of a need for cleaning.
My car sat for three years during the engine rebuild with 5 gallons of E85 in the tank where my Red Armstrong pumps reside and residue from E85 in the injectors setting on my work bench. The engine fired up last year like I had shut it off the day before. It runs extremely well and I still haven't looked in the tank or inspected my replaceable fuel filter. I do,however,have a reputation for running with scissors in one hand and a Popsicle in my mouth. I'm not here to survive life,I'm here to live it. Get out of my way!
If you compare ethanol to gasoline,you will find that gasoline is relatively dirty and ethanol is relatively clean. The problems associated with E85 generally occur after the fuel leaves the fuel line and enters a carburetor bowl or after it leaves a fuel injector. I would expect the fuel injectors of an E85 fuel system to have less of a need for cleaning.
My car sat for three years during the engine rebuild with 5 gallons of E85 in the tank where my Red Armstrong pumps reside and residue from E85 in the injectors setting on my work bench. The engine fired up last year like I had shut it off the day before. It runs extremely well and I still haven't looked in the tank or inspected my replaceable fuel filter. I do,however,have a reputation for running with scissors in one hand and a Popsicle in my mouth. I'm not here to survive life,I'm here to live it. Get out of my way!
Replaced my 60's with 80's about 3 months ago, didn't seen any buildup on them. They had been in car a little over a year. I had replaced the fuel filter at least 3 times, during the year or so they were in the car.
Highly advise replacing all the rubber fuel lines with E85 compatible rubber lines. Not cheap, but a must in my opinion.
Highly advise replacing all the rubber fuel lines with E85 compatible rubber lines. Not cheap, but a must in my opinion.
