High volume oil pump
- Thread starter 1972chevy
- Start date
1986 Buick GX1
GX1 #001 [The One and Only]
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
I can't say on the high volume oil pump, although I do have the Kenne- bell oil pump booster plate/ kit on an (other than VC and rear main seal) unopened stocker. It seems to work.
It is a good idea to clean up the cover and do the Earl Brown mods.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/b...build-front-cover-oil-pump.html#/topics/39169
It is a good idea to clean up the cover and do the Earl Brown mods.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/b...build-front-cover-oil-pump.html#/topics/39169
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Std pump, Earl's mods, good to go. No need to pump excessive amts of oil to the top end.
No.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
I have never been a fan of high volume oil pumps, but recently used a couple new TA timing covers with the HV pump.
One on my race car, and the other also a street/strip turbo, both can run close to 7000 RPM.
Start-up pressure is 70-80 psi and about 50-55 psi cruising, and never seen below 35 psi.
The TA timing cover with the standard gears works better than any stock, modified or aftermarket cover, but my choice for a performance engine would be the TA HV cover.
One on my race car, and the other also a street/strip turbo, both can run close to 7000 RPM.
Start-up pressure is 70-80 psi and about 50-55 psi cruising, and never seen below 35 psi.
The TA timing cover with the standard gears works better than any stock, modified or aftermarket cover, but my choice for a performance engine would be the TA HV cover.
Over the years I found there are a lot less problems with lower pressures than higher. Going by the old standard of 10 psi at hot idle and 10 psi per 1,000 rpm works well. Lower stock type pressures do not eat power via parasitic drag, stress cam sensor drive gear or roll pins or the #1 cam bearing. You will find lots of opinions on this much like the opinions of thin oil vs thick oil.
Thin.
LOL! But I agree!
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
I recently had a new engine have to come back apart after just fifty miles because of a "new" Chinese timing cover. The shop's entire stock had cam sensor to pump drive bore misalignments. All of the new covers are cast by just one or two places in China, so everybody is drinking from the same well. It's not practical to test every cover on a pallet at the docks, so they're getting to customers. I didn't catch it because they blueprinted and assembled the cover for me, and it was already packed with Vasoline and ready to go, so I didn't check it myself. That was my mistake.
If it has the alignment problem, the pump gears will contact the pump cavity on one side and angle into the thrust plate. The self indexing that happens results in excessive clearance inside the pump and a boatload of aluminum in your oil. Mine was bad enough that the pump drive gear and the driven gear meshed at enough of an angle that they started chipping each other, which sent a few small bits of steel through the motor and scored most of the bearings. They also wore the pump drive shaft hole oblong enough I had to knock the pump gear out with a hammer when I tore it down. My idle oil pressure on that pump was 4-5psi after just fifty miles.
I replaced it with a junkyard genuine GM cover that was still in spec, resurfaced the thrust plate/filter adapter myself, did the Earl Brown mods, put it back together with a standard rebuild kit, and I'm at 70+psi cold startup and 10-15psi warm idle after a 30 minute drive. Standard volume. 5w30 Royal Purple oil. I'm 300 miles into the initial break in, and my pressures are the same as they were the first time I started it, so I think this one is going to make it.
Whichever cover you get, assemble it on the bench with the cam sensor and oil pump gears and make sure it spins freely and you have the right side clearance around the entire cavity and through an entire 360 degree rotation of the pump; and proper end clearance across the entire face of the gears. It's not enough to assemble just the pump gears and check. You have to check with the cam sensor installed. And check it yourself. All it takes is a feeler gauge set and some time.
Trust no parts out of the box. No matter how trusted the vendor. They're being supplied with garbage, and they can't check everything every single time. Nobody is perfect. Stuff gets through.
If it has the alignment problem, the pump gears will contact the pump cavity on one side and angle into the thrust plate. The self indexing that happens results in excessive clearance inside the pump and a boatload of aluminum in your oil. Mine was bad enough that the pump drive gear and the driven gear meshed at enough of an angle that they started chipping each other, which sent a few small bits of steel through the motor and scored most of the bearings. They also wore the pump drive shaft hole oblong enough I had to knock the pump gear out with a hammer when I tore it down. My idle oil pressure on that pump was 4-5psi after just fifty miles.
I replaced it with a junkyard genuine GM cover that was still in spec, resurfaced the thrust plate/filter adapter myself, did the Earl Brown mods, put it back together with a standard rebuild kit, and I'm at 70+psi cold startup and 10-15psi warm idle after a 30 minute drive. Standard volume. 5w30 Royal Purple oil. I'm 300 miles into the initial break in, and my pressures are the same as they were the first time I started it, so I think this one is going to make it.
Whichever cover you get, assemble it on the bench with the cam sensor and oil pump gears and make sure it spins freely and you have the right side clearance around the entire cavity and through an entire 360 degree rotation of the pump; and proper end clearance across the entire face of the gears. It's not enough to assemble just the pump gears and check. You have to check with the cam sensor installed. And check it yourself. All it takes is a feeler gauge set and some time.
Trust no parts out of the box. No matter how trusted the vendor. They're being supplied with garbage, and they can't check everything every single time. Nobody is perfect. Stuff gets through.
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I will absolutely do it my self. Thank you for all the information and taking the time to explain it. I really appreciate it.
gn87man
Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2016
Yes, thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to us.
I just purchased a high volume front timing cover with high volume gears from Full Throttle Speed and I will definitely perform the checks which you explained, before I install the front cover.
Full Throttle said the front cover is manufactured by Silver Seal, which I assume is Chinese made. Ugh.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Anyone?
dank GN
BlackArts Automotive (661)993-8277
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
It’s all about the tolerances bud . If you can get them nice and tight in the housing with the correct plate spacers you will have a nicely working pump that should last . I have done many covers over the yrs for ppl . Just check out Earl’s write up on moding them and you will be good
Got it.
I have a coupon to use at the auto parts place that's why I was asking. Just didn't know if the TA performance plate did something special.
I'll get the milling plate
captndave737
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
The booster plate is basically the same as milling the bottom piece. The High Volume pump adds a spacer and comes with longer gears.
If it means anything RC uses High Volume oil pumps in his builds unless the customer specifies not to.
TA doesn't make a booster plate.Your question should be "What is the difference between the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell booster plate and the Melling pump cover surface restoration plate.The booster plate creates a flat surface that does away with the open cavity in the stock pump cover. This creates better pump efficiency,especially at lower rpm. Since bypassed oil is returned to the pump gears through the open cavity and the cavity is no longer there with the booster plate,a channel to reroute the bypass oil back into the oil intake stream is machined into the stock cover with a Dremel rotary tool. The Melling plate is used to provide a new unscarred surface for the pump gears to ride against. The plate retains the open cavity for bypass oil to return to the pump gears,therefore it doesn't do anything to increase efficiency.
No,the Melling plate is the same as milling the cover to get rid of gouges caused from debris and the pump gears. The booster plate is different.
