HEADERS pros and cons for MY application

TIMINATOR

Active Member
T guy, looks just like my exhaust. Mine didn't come with mufflers. What mufflers are those? I want mine to be quiet if possible, is yours?
As far as suspension, I know a bit about it. This is my 3rd 1987 turbo buick. I have also owned a few 1977 thru 79 g bodies and I have had several 1970 thru 72 chevelles, both smallblocks and bigblocks. They all have very similar chassis geometry. When I learn how to post pics, (I'll call you for pic info, Tguy, if u have time) Then I will post a wheels up pic of my 1972 454 street Chevelle (p/s, p/b, a/c) running high 9s thru the muffs on 295/50s. In 1988. It had stock front and rear springs, and shocks, and no rear sway bar. I learned about those a few years later. I'm sure I will have an interesting time trying to learn the difference between hooking up a torquey big block in relation to a turbo V-6. If I can do it, I'll post pics of how. If not, ya all can have a big laugh! It's all in fun!
TIMINATOR
P.S. TurboT Guy, didn't you say you saw my pink Chevelle run at Speedworld?
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
I honestly don't know what brand they are, they came with the kit. When I don't have the dump open, the car runs pretty quiet.

I bought it from GN1 Performance - 626.442.9228.

Yes, I saw that car run back in the day. It was fun to watch, had to be a blast to drive!
 

TIMINATOR

Active Member
I honestly don't know what brand they are, they came with the kit. When I don't have the dump open, the car runs pretty quiet.

I bought it from GN1 Performance - 626.442.9228.

Yes, I saw that car run back in the day. It was fun to watch, had to be a blast to drive!
I'll call you later and if you would, please school me on how to post pics ! I have an 8x10 on the wall of the Chevelle launching here, and the reactions it still gets are amazing.
When anyone wanted to street race, I said follow me into a parking lot and we will talk about it. I would then wheelie it thru the intersection, and then asked them how much they wanted to race for. No takers.
I ran it 1988 thru 1992 when I sold it. The guy that bought it changed the tires and wheels the next day, then took a few of his friends out to show it off. He lit it off, and it spun it 3 or 4 times down a freeway on ramp, before it entered the freeway facing backwards at about 80 roasting the tires, and it ended up stuck in the median! The fool apparently froze with his foot to the floor till it stopped running. Tach tattletale read 8800 rpm!
His dad paid me to put an RV cam, RPM limiter, and small carb on it, (and a new valvetrain). I havent seen it since.
We will talk.later!
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Active Member
Bring back any memories Guy?
1st pic. 1988 I think. All steel p/s, p/b, a/c, full interior, daily driven, 1972 Chevelle on 26x9 slicks, to see if it was faster than on the 295/50 dot legal street tires. It wasn't. 10.80 @ 124 either way.
2nd pic. Later 1988. Glass hood and front bumper, all else same except 150 shot NOS and back on my normal Hoosier street 295/50 tires.
9.87 @ 136, just the way I drove it for 3 years everywhere as my only street car.
The only traction mods were: stock front springs, shocks, and sway bar, boxed rear lower control arms, boxed frame rails, stock rear springs and shocks, relocated link mounts in rear, and a right airbag only. NO REAR SWAY BAR.
I'm gonna try the same mods to my Turbo T LTD. and see if it works on that too. It should, I have done a bunch of them just like this.
Sitting still, the upper fender lips are about even with the widest part of the sidewalls, front and back. Front end was lowered 2" due to a big block motor on the original small block springs!
Old MOPAR racers call this chassis separation. It lifts the front, and jams the rear tires into the track on the launch at the same time, just as the car starts to move, if set up correctly.
With an air jack under the rear bumper, and the bumper on a scale, I believe we saw about 350 lbs + on the scale with the back raised to what it was on the launch. We used a yardstick and a horizontal tape line on the fender to measure the rear lift. Somewhere I should have pics of us doing that at the track. They were nice enough to let my worker measure it on several launches one night.
All of this is a result of figuring the cars C.G. and graphing the rear suspension points, and calculating what to modify, and where to relocate them. And a welder, and some metal, and some time.
Same suspension as a Regal.
Motor: 454, stock stroke, iron OVAL port heads (ported), Comp solid street roller: 262@.050, .651 lift, dart single plane intake, 800 Holley d.p, Hughes 3000 stall 10" convertor, TH 350, 3.73 geared 12 bolt rear, and 2" x 3.5" Hooker headers. I tried Dyno Max Super Turbo 3" muffs, and some 3" glass packs, the et and mph was real close, so I put the Dyno Maxes back on there, much quieter.
The question now becomes if I can make these chassis mods work on a turbo v-6, like it did on a big block Chevy!
Win, lose, or draw, I'll post it.
TIMINATOR
P.S. The car wasn't faded, just a good (too much) flash on the camera!
 

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TIMINATOR

Active Member
Bring back any memories Guy?
1st pic. 1988 I think. All steel p/s, p/b, a/c, full interior, daily driven, 1972 Chevelle on 26x9 slicks, to see if it was faster than on the 295/50 dot legal street tires. It wasn't. 10.80 @ 124 either way.
2nd pic. Later 1988. Glass hood and front bumper, all else same except 150 shot NOS and back on my normal Hoosier street 295/50 tires.
9.87 @ 136, just the way I drove it for 3 years everywhere as my only street car.
The only traction mods were: stock front springs, shocks, and sway bar, boxed rear lower control arms, boxed frame rails, stock rear springs and shocks, relocated link mounts in rear, and a right airbag only. NO REAR SWAY BAR.
I'm gonna try the same mods to my Turbo T LTD. and see if it works on that too. It should, I have done a bunch of them just like this.
Sitting still, the upper fender lips are about even with the widest part of the sidewalls, front and back. Front end was lowered 2" due to a big block motor on the original small block springs!
Old MOPAR racers call this chassis separation. It lifts the front, and jams the rear tires into the track on the launch at the same time, just as the car starts to move, if set up correctly.
With an air jack under the rear bumper, and the bumper on a scale, I believe we saw about 350 lbs + on the scale with the back raised to what it was on the launch. We used a yardstick and a horizontal tape line on the fender to measure the rear lift. Somewhere I should have pics of us doing that at the track. They were nice enough to let my worker measure it on several launches one night.
All of this is a result of figuring the cars C.G. and graphing the rear suspension points, and calculating what to modify, and where to relocate them. And a welder, and some metal, and some time.
Same suspension as a Regal.
Motor: 454, stock stroke, iron OVAL port heads (ported), Comp solid street roller: 262@.050, .651 lift, dart single plane intake, 800 Holley d.p, Hughes 3000 stall 10" convertor, TH 350, 3.73 geared 12 bolt rear, and 2" x 3.5" Hooker headers. I tried Dyno Max Super Turbo 3" muffs, and some 3" glass packs, the et and mph was real close, so I put the Dyno Maxes back on there, much quieter.
The question now becomes if I can make these chassis mods work on a turbo v-6, like it did on a big block Chevy!
Win, lose, or draw, I'll post it.
TIMINATOR
P.S. The car wasn't faded, just a good (too much) flash on the camera!
Why are the pics cut off narrow? What did I do wrong? Can't see all the good stuff!
 

TIMINATOR

Active Member
Why are the pics cut off narrow? What did I do wrong? Can't see all the good stuff!
OK. Tap on the pic. A 14 year old just told me that! DUH!
Guy, car show on Bell Saturday nite? We will talk before then. Meanwhile, I'm going back out to work on assembling this tiny motor so I can get my Buick running!
TIMINATOR
P.S.
If anyone wants to know how to figure out the rear suspension, ask. I use a 1/4" square (quadraile) ruled 18"x 24" pad for my work. It makes things easier to visualize! I draw the chassis out from the front wheel, to the back wheel. Scale the car at a decorative rock place or circle track racer first. That allows you to figure the front/back c.g.
TIMINATOR
 

Chuck Leeper

Toxic old bastard
Staff member
Electric cut out? Is it faster open? Attempt at humor? We need to meet up sometime!
I did some dyno and track comparos on the cutout.
The car had a 274" S2, ATR exhaust, no cat, Pitbull muffs.
Chassis dyno: Found 3-5 RWHP more open.
Track time, almost nil. I was looking at 1/4mi mph.
142+ to 142 flat. Same day, cool down time, etc. Some minor weather changes were involved.
Plug readings were so close I couldn't see a difference.
 

TIMINATOR

Active Member
I did some dyno and track comparos on the cutout.
The car had a 274" S2, ATR exhaust, no cat, Pitbull muffs.
Chassis dyno: Found 3-5 RWHP more open.
Track time, almost nil. I was looking at 1/4mi mph.
142+ to 142 flat. Same day, cool down time, etc. Some minor weather changes were involved.
Plug readings were so close I couldn't see a difference.
That's the kind of info I like! Back to back!
I would really like to see info on spool time, stall, HP/et manifolds to headers though. Lacking that, I will probably stay with the stock ones. THANKS!
TIMINATOR
 

TType85

Well-Known Member
That's the kind of info I like! Back to back!
I would really like to see info on spool time, stall, HP/et manifolds to headers though. Lacking that, I will probably stay with the stock ones. THANKS!
TIMINATOR
Finding data like that is really hard on these cars. Some of the Guru's have done a lot of testing but you are not going to find back to back X header spooled in Y time.

Here is my car when it had a 6262, stock headers, 3" downpipe, FMIC, non-ported heads, 3Kish stall non lock converter (that has way too much slip). 91 octane/Alky. Hit the throttle while still in vacuum, went from -3.3psi to 21.2psi in 1.25 seconds.
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626gn

Well-Known Member
That's the kind of info I like! Back to back!
I would really like to see info on spool time, stall, HP/et manifolds to headers though. Lacking that, I will probably stay with the stock ones. THANKS!
TIMINATOR
Not exactly the back-to-back testing on stock vs aftermarket your were looking for but here is some good info by one person who was involved with development and testing of the TA headers Headers

On a side note, TA headers have gone through slight design changes over the years to improve the product, which for the most part goes unnoticed by most. I bought my TA headers in 2019 and my builder (who was instrumental in developing other parts for TA, like their well known aluminum block) said he noticed a design change from previous versions.

For what it's worth, my decision to go with TA's over stock was more of a practical decision rather than performance based. Trying to make a long story short, my stock manifolds needed extensive work and repairs to get them good enough to use on my new build. I live in one of, if not, thee most expensive States to live in. The cost of repairing my stock manifolds compared to new TA's made it a no brainer for me. Plus I get the benefits of better, thicker stainless, thicker flanges, and they just plain look better. All that counts for something in my book.
 
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