GS Nationals attendance been dropping

RichieRocket

New Member
Is he the guy that does all the vintage stock car stuff? Think I watched him dig through a trailer of DW stuff one time. Seems like a pretty down to earth guy, at least on screen.
Yes, he does nostalgic race car post! He loves the history of racing and his tiny little girlfriend helps him work on cars… its a great channel! I have a message in to him now..
 

WE2Regal

Active Member
Yeah, I know...There's "B1", "B2", etc... I ran "B1" back in '15, lasted through an 80 car field but lost in the semi finals to the eventual winner but what disappointed me is that during the following days, there were results on the net of who won in each heads up classes (TSO, TSM classes, etc...) but not a single mention of who won in any of the "B" classes... as if they were not important and did not deserve any covering. That is not encouraging for the little guy racer and not very motivating to return either...:rolleyes:
I went to BG for many, many years beginning in about '89 through 2000 something. A friend and I always ran the bracket classes. After trying for many years, my friend finally won B2, which was the most crowded class. He got a pint of whiskey and a $100.00 coupon from a parts vendor that didn't sell Grand National parts. That's it! And he doesn't even drink alcohol. And that was after racing all day long while most of the others classes were already long ago finished for the day. By the time he was done racing, everyone had already left and the track was empty. I later phoned the GS club and talked to someone about it that sounded like Richard Lassiter (but said he wasn't) who told me he didn't know anyone even cared about the bracket classes and no one wants to sponsor them anyway. After seeing this event decline over the years in many other ways, I decided it wasn't worth attending anymore.
 
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RichieRocket

New Member
I went to BG for many, many years beginning in about '89 through 2000 something. A friend and I always ran the bracket classes. After trying for many years, my friend finally won B2, which was the most crowded class. He got a pint of whiskey and a $100.00 coupon from a parts vendor that didn't sell Grand National parts. That's it! And he doesn't even drink alcohol. And that was after racing all day long while most of the others classes were already long ago finished for the day. By the time he was done racing, everyone had already left and the track was empty. I later phoned the GS club and talked to someone about it that sounded like Richard Lassiter (but said he wasn't) who told me he didn't know anyone even cared about the bracket classes and no one wants to sponsor them anyway. After seeing this event decline over the years in many other ways, I decided it wasn't worth attending anymore.
This is why I am attempting to make this better now. I have heard these same horrible experiences over and over again. Mismanaged events will kill any enthusiasm that was created by those with the purest of intentions. If it is an intentional (for tax purposes) issue, we will find it. This event should be profitable and likely is. Let’s have fun this year and allow us to figure out why it seems to lose money. Let’s find ways to earn a profit. Does anyone know who has a mobile Dyno machine? I can guarantee that it would make a serious profit and it could be used on cars other than our GS and GNs. A mobile dyno with advertisement at the Nats would rack up some money. I am considering buying a fuel injector flow bench and cleaning system to rebuild injectors as that is kind of my jam.. Any ideas to help us keep this event are welcomed. No idea is stupid, so chime in and let the Veterans evaluate what May or may not work. ☮️ Richie Rocket Racing
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Ritchie only an idiot races a dyno😉
This is why I am attempting to make this better now. I have heard these same horrible experiences over and over again. Mismanaged events will kill any enthusiasm that was created by those with the purest of intentions. If it is an intentional (for tax purposes) issue, we will find it. This event should be profitable and likely is. Let’s have fun this year and allow us to figure out why it seems to lose money. Let’s find ways to earn a profit. Does anyone know who has a mobile Dyno machine? I can guarantee that it would make a serious profit and it could be used on cars other than our GS and GNs. A mobile dyno with advertisement at the Nats would rack up some money. I am considering buying a fuel injector flow bench and cleaning system to rebuild injectors as that is kind of my jam.. Any ideas to help us keep this event are welcomed. No idea is stupid, so chime in and let the Veterans evaluate what May or may not work. ☮️ Richie Rocket Racing
 

HalfDozIN

Member
I think you have a solid idea. I'm not sure of the ability of the event to pull the biggest of names in (I think the Vise Grip Garage guy is rather fond of old Buick's as an example) but there are several, still pretty well-established ones out there (Ramblinaround, Uncle Tony, etc). Those might be somewhat more approachable, and have shown a history of openness to check out most any shape or form of classic car.
I've even heard it suggested that non-buick powered buicks be allowed more substantial involvement. Not gonna pick a horse for that race, MY Buicks will stay Buick. There certainly are a number that are not, though. It might come to considering that. Better one have an engine swap than to be sitting in the weeds somewhere rotting.
For me, bottom line is, like you said, whatever it takes to keep it going. I need something to look forward to every May.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
People need their cars tuned. I guess Cal and Holly only deal with idiots and their business is failing???
Not sure you quite understand so I will give the cheatsheat
No tuner tunes his car on just a dyno
They tune on the surface they race at the event even remotely.
Dyno is just a tool and far from real world.
Cal is good people and will give a good up front tune based on his experience and maybe a dyno pull.
Now when he goes to the track or has data to remote tune the car it will always go faster vs an upfront tune.
We all do as we are adapting to track and air conditions.
 

RichieRocket

New Member
Not sure you quite understand so I will give the cheatsheat
No tuner tunes his car on just a dyno
They tune on the surface they race at the event even remotely.
Dyno is just a tool and far from real world.
Cal is good people and will give a good up front tune based on his experience and maybe a dyno pull.
Now when he goes to the track or has data to remote tune the car it will always go faster vs an upfront tune.
We all do as we are adapting to track and air conditions.
Exactly. And dynos are profitable. I completely understand.
 

RichieRocket

New Member
I think you have a solid idea. I'm not sure of the ability of the event to pull the biggest of names in (I think the Vise Grip Garage guy is rather fond of old Buick's as an example) but there are several, still pretty well-established ones out there (Ramblinaround, Uncle Tony, etc). Those might be somewhat more approachable, and have shown a history of openness to check out most any shape or form of classic car.
I've even heard it suggested that non-buick powered buicks be allowed more substantial involvement. Not gonna pick a horse for that race, MY Buicks will stay Buick. There certainly are a number that are not, though. It might come to considering that. Better one have an engine swap than to be sitting in the weeds somewhere rotting.
For me, bottom line is, like you said, whatever it takes to keep it going. I need something to look forward to every May.
I have been in contact with Derek. He is very fond of vintage cars and lives about an hour from me and about 2 1/2 hours from the track.
 
talked to someone about it that sounded like Richard Lassiter (but said he wasn't) who told me he didn't know anyone even cared about the bracket classes and no one wants to sponsor them anyway. After seeing this event decline over the years in many other ways, I decided it wasn't worth attending anymore.
See...? They don't are about bracket racing because it doesn't "give a good show" as much as heads up... The fact that bracket racing gives everyone a better chance is non-important to them but to have a good show is. For several "small guy racers" like me (and maybe "WE2Regal), it's like if we were told "we don't care if you attend or not, we only care about the "big name" racers"...
Needless to say I never went back and I'm still undecided if I ever will after feeling "ignored" that way.
Claude.
 

TurboWh1

Active Member
Being part of the program is most of the excitement for me. Each lead(RRA I think it's called)of the heads up classes bust their a$$ to help get anyone who will pitch in for pay outs. I don't know who runs all the brackets but there must be something that can be done for payouts for all the winners. The payouts do to some degree entice the racer to pick a class that best fits his/her car. AND you can enter multiple classes if your car can handle the abuse of no cool down:) I will admit things have changed over the years but that shouldn't stop you from coming out!!! Let's make it better!
 

OldSledHead

New Member
See...? They don't are about bracket racing because it doesn't "give a good show" as much as heads up... The fact that bracket racing gives everyone a better chance is non-important to them but to have a good show is. For several "small guy racers" like me (and maybe "WE2Regal), it's like if we were told "we don't care if you attend or not, we only care about the "big name" racers"...
Needless to say I never went back and I'm still undecided if I ever will after feeling "ignored" that way.
Claude.
Well specifically I read that there is no interest from any vendor business individual(s) to sponsor any of the bracket classes. So hence I he didn’t think anybody cared since nobody wants to sponsor any bracket classes? Anybody want to sponsor a bracket class? He’s been begging for volunteers for years. Most all of us including myself have never picked up the phone to ever help out at our beloved GS Nationals. The biggest cause of the decline of Buick racing and events being sponsored is of course nothing from Buick seriously since 1987. Unfortunately GM shifted Buick racing to Cadillac racing. That most certainly did not do the GS Nats or any Buick events any good long term. And this is nothing personal but I personally do not care for bracket racing. I get that Bracket racing originally was created to prevent cheating. Just sayin nothing personal against the racers or fans who like it. A lot of these problems might go away if GM would develop another Buick Musclecar. But then we would have to get the younger generation a lot more interested and away from the computer games and virtual reality and smart phones that seem to have them mesmerized. I hope it all works out for everyone.
 

RichieRocket

New Member
I will give $100.00 cash to the winner of B1,B2,and B3 this year.. Full 🛑 Since they have no RRA, I will have my beautiful wife hand out the $100.00 bills to each winner. There you go. I am sponsoring TSM and all 3 brackets. At least it will pay for a couple of Big Macs on the way home. Quote this post and I guarantee it! Richie Rocket Racing
 

HalfDozIN

Member
I will give $100.00 cash to the winner of B1,B2,and B3 this year.. Full 🛑 Since they have no RRA, I will have my beautiful wife hand out the $100.00 bills to each winner. There you go. I am sponsoring TSM and all 3 brackets. At least it will pay for a couple of Big Macs on the way home. Quote this post and I guarantee it! Richie Rocket Racing
Since there's no RRA for those classes, who would we approach to sponsor stuff like that? It's not much but I would be willing to do something like that to try and help if it'd make it worth it for some racers.
 

RichieRocket

New Member
Since there's no RRA for those classes, who would we approach to sponsor stuff like that? It's not much but I would be willing to do something like that to try and help if it'd make it worth it for some racers.
I guess you can look me up if you are coming to the event, otherwise, I guess you can post here what you can offer and PayPal whoever you would like your contribution to go to. Maybe 2nd and 3rd or whatever. You choose, it’s your hard earned money. If you are there you can hand it out, or my wife, Racquel can award it if you like. I like the idea of a beautiful woman handing out the prizes unless off course there is a woman racer like Melissa that would prefer a Chippendale looking guy to give her the prize money. Who wants to volunteer for that? You better have more mussels than me… LOL
 

outatime86

Active Member
I will give $100.00 cash to the winner of B1,B2,and B3 this year.. Full 🛑 Since they have no RRA, I will have my beautiful wife hand out the $100.00 bills to each winner. There you go. I am sponsoring TSM and all 3 brackets. At least it will pay for a couple of Big Macs on the way home. Quote this post and I guarantee it! Richie Rocket Racing
Wow! Very cool!!
 

WE2Regal

Active Member
Well specifically I read that there is no interest from any vendor business individual(s) to sponsor any of the bracket classes. So hence I he didn’t think anybody cared since nobody wants to sponsor any bracket classes? Anybody want to sponsor a bracket class? He’s been begging for volunteers for years. Most all of us including myself have never picked up the phone to ever help out at our beloved GS Nationals. The biggest cause of the decline of Buick racing and events being sponsored is of course nothing from Buick seriously since 1987. Unfortunately GM shifted Buick racing to Cadillac racing. That most certainly did not do the GS Nats or any Buick events any good long term. And this is nothing personal but I personally do not care for bracket racing. I get that Bracket racing originally was created to prevent cheating. Just sayin nothing personal against the racers or fans who like it. A lot of these problems might go away if GM would develop another Buick Musclecar. But then we would have to get the younger generation a lot more interested and away from the computer games and virtual reality and smart phones that seem to have them mesmerized. I hope it all works out for everyone.
I'm not a GSCA member anymore, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But I wanted clarify a few things about what I wrote that might have insight for the future of your event. It was not that I thought that since no vendor would sponsor a bracket class, I thought no one cared. Sponsorship was a separate issue. The person at GSCA was perfectly clear that no one cared about the bracket classes. Meaning the club too. And he said he was surprised anyone would call to complain about it. If I had to describe his tone, I would say he was cocky to the point of being rude. My argument was, at least at that time, some of those bracket classes had 3 or 4 times the number of cars in one single class than all of the heads up classes combined. Those guys represented the majority of racers and the backbone of the club. That's why it took all day to finish the bracket classes while all of the heads up racers had been paid and long ago left the track. The next club newsletter listed all the race winners except for the bracket classes. Not a mention at all.
I get it that people don't like to watch bracket racing. You'll never draw a crowd to a bracket race. It's just plain boring for spectators to watch. You have to be a participant to enjoy it. I never heard that it was created to prevent cheating. My understanding has always been that it was created to be more inclusive and get more cars, fast or slow, and drivers participating in racing. The added benefit was more cars, more money for that event. Anyone with any car could be competitive and win. No matter how slow. And I've seen the slowest, most inexpensive car win. Many of the NHRA Sportsman classes at huge national events such as Stock and Super Stock are glorified bracket races. They dial in and race on an index and can lose by breaking out. For anyone to suggest that bracket racing isn't an important form of racing just isn't considering how popular it is. No one is going back to their home track and racing under those heads up class rules like TSO, etc. They are bracket racing. RichieRocket is on the right track and I wish him the best of luck. Don't alienate the little guy like what happened to me because they're attendance and participation is helping pay the bills in the end.
 

OldSledHead

New Member
I can say when I first stated attending the Nats in 1994 the Turbo Buick owners and fans couldn’t wait to see the likes of Kenny Duttweiler, Frank & Pete Barton of ANS Performance, Kenne-Bell Buick & Driver the late Jim D’Alessandro, Lawrence Conley in Tweaked all run. And if I recall correctly it does seem like Buddy Cox and Ron Fruchey came a few times in the early years also. It was then the biggest drawing event for Bowling Green back then. But that was 35-40 years ago.
What could possibly help now to draw more attendance? If we’re throwing ideas around with the premise that any suggestions are a good suggestion to consider here go’s in no particular order:
I numbered them simply as a referral to identify each suggestion.
1. Ask Cal Hartline or another master tuner to set up a service by appointment to offer tuning on your pride and joy. Naturally this tuner would pay a vending fee and this tuner would charge his fee for tuning your car.
2. Ask Julio to set up as a installer of his ally kit on your pride and joy. You buy Julio’s ally kit, Julio pays a vending fee, and Julio charges his fee for professional installing his new alky kit for you. Have a current problem with a older Julio alky kit, make an appointment to have Julio repair it.
3. Yes have a Dyno company come in for anyone who wants to run their car on the dyno. Dyno company pays vendor fee, and charges for their service.
4 GM Heritage Center’s Buick Collection of Buick’s, both past production collection & their Concept Buick collection. GM, Buick, The Heritage Center, Flint Buick Gallery-Sloan Museum, somebody had GNX 001 & GNX 002 at the Nats in the past. That was always a popular attraction.
5. Daryl Waltrip’s has extra time on his hands nowadays. Dial him up and invite him to come to the Nats. Set him up to sign autographs and charge a fee for that. Have him bring his most winning car he ever drove to wins & championship’s. His #11 Mountain Dew Buick sits on display at one of his dealerships the last time I seen it. He will tell you that he won a lot of races in that car. He loves to talk & reminisce.
6. Bobby Allison. Do the same with him. Have him come up to sign autographs. Maybe he would like to attend with Richard Clark. Bobby Allison does quite a bit of autograph appearances still nowadays. His #22 Buick Miller Beer Grand National Championship car would be a popular attraction.
7. An organized car cruise outside of Bowling Green. A few years ago my wife & I went for a cruise leaving the host Ramada and drove East for about 15 miles or so to a town. I turned around an we eventually turned South and with no plan we came upon an old store still open in the town of Alvaton KY named Boyce General Store. It’s advertised as having Car Show, Live Music, Great Food, & Hang Out. Of course we stopped and had a bite to eat an a soda. So as someone said all ideas are a good idea to consider, and no ideas are well no help at all. This is just a rough drawn list of ideas that would need some tweaking to make happen in the future but a start.
 

OldSledHead

New Member
I'm not a GSCA member anymore, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But I wanted clarify a few things about what I wrote that might have insight for the future of your event. It was not that I thought that since no vendor would sponsor a bracket class, I thought no one cared. Sponsorship was a separate issue. The person at GSCA was perfectly clear that no one cared about the bracket classes. Meaning the club too. And he said he was surprised anyone would call to complain about it. If I had to describe his tone, I would say he was cocky to the point of being rude. My argument was, at least at that time, some of those bracket classes had 3 or 4 times the number of cars in one single class than all of the heads up classes combined. Those guys represented the majority of racers and the backbone of the club. That's why it took all day to finish the bracket classes while all of the heads up racers had been paid and long ago left the track. The next club newsletter listed all the race winners except for the bracket classes. Not a mention at all.
I get it that people don't like to watch bracket racing. You'll never draw a crowd to a bracket race. It's just plain boring for spectators to watch. You have to be a participant to enjoy it. I never heard that it was created to prevent cheating. My understanding has always been that it was created to be more inclusive and get more cars, fast or slow, and drivers participating in racing. The added benefit was more cars, more money for that event. Anyone with any car could be competitive and win. No matter how slow. And I've seen the slowest, most inexpensive car win. Many of the NHRA Sportsman classes at huge national events such as Stock and Super Stock are glorified bracket races. They dial in and race on an index and can lose by breaking out. For anyone to suggest that bracket racing isn't an important form of racing just isn't considering how popular it is. No one is going back to their home track and racing under those heads up class rules like TSO, etc. They are bracket racing. RichieRocket is on the right track and I wish him the best of luck. Don't alienate the little guy like what happened to me because they're attendance and participation is helping pay the bills in the end.
With regards to why bracket racing was created, that is what the current racers at the time were telling me their reason they said to me why bracket racing was created. As a young kid back 40 plus years ago and just getting into drag racing I had both my older co workers and the guys then at the track all saying that bracket racing was created to help discourage & prevent the cheating that was going on. I never ran bracket racing so to me I never gave it much thought as it did not affect me. They were pretty adamant about what they thought on why bracket racing was created. So just to clarify that was what a lot of my racing co workers were saying back 40 plus years ago and the guys at the track. The tracks I went to back then were Martin dragway in Martin MIchigan, and Central MIchigan Drayway in Stanton MIchigan. I was always under the impression that is why it was created . Maybe not if you have never heard that.
 
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