First test on new combo...more injector or voltage boost to pump?

[Wright 63]

Finally got to test new combo yesterday. Track prep was terrible so traction was MAJOR issue but we had a good time and I ran into my old school Buick buddy from WAY back in the day, Mike Ruille. Hadnt seen him in almost 20 years.

Brand new MT drag radials
first pass, 4 psi launch, boiled tires 12.65 @ 124 mph
second pass, 0psi launch, boiled tires 11.23 @ 126.5
third and final pass, dead off the brake/ no gas, hooked better (1.75 60' lol) but boiled tires when boost reached around 16 psi.
11.01 @ 127 mph
60' 1.754
330 4.726
1/8 7.154 @ 101.52
1000 9.244


Anyway, back to the question, injectors or boost the pump? Here are the PL files for last two passes. My concern is the Inj DC# hitting 91.5. I have 60# inj w/ updated Caspers wiring harness and DW300 pump, hot wired, grounded at the battery, and all in the tank wiring harness upgraded as well, stock lines. Im not getting the 1/1 rise in FP matching boost. Could that be why my DC is high? I know 60#'s are good for mid 10's (based on my MPH im knocking on the door) Everything else looked OK to me.

*EDIT: Voltage measurements @ idle;
140 amp Alt: no load 14.7v, load 14.5v
Batt: no load 14.7v, load 14.5v
pump: no load 14v, load 13.7v
load being, all lights, radio, blower and dual GN1 fans

So.... 80# inj? KB Boost a pump? Caspers voltage booster (running Razors Alky single nozzle, Ive heard good and bad about using together with Caspers VB)

Combo is the 87 GN in my sig

*edit: base FP is 45 psi with vac off per Extender Pro chip, 2nd PL log doesnt have inj DC, forgot to hit record on laptop (oops) and used Scanmaster G log

With better traction I'd like to come up on the boost but didnt want to push my luck yesterday. As far as goals, I dont have any other than ring the guts outa what Ive got and see how fast it goes.

Thanks Gentlemen

 

[dynoman]

Instead of throwing parts at it , I would first check DC volts at the back of the alternator ( motor running ). It should be over 13vdc or you will not even charge the battery ( you are at 12.6-12.7v in the log @ full boost ), If you have 13+v there , move to the battery , and then down the line to the pump . I would load the system down by turning on all accessories (all lights , blower motor , even wipers ) and do the same checks . Let us know what you come up with and lets get the proper voltage to start with . Sam

 

[Mr.Spool]

Finally got to test new combo yesterday. Track prep was terrible so traction was MAJOR issue but we had a good time and I ran into my old school Buick buddy from WAY back in the day, Mike Ruille. Hadnt seen him in almost 20 years.

Brand new MT drag radials
first pass, 4 psi launch, boiled tires 12.65 @ 124 mph
second pass, 0psi launch, boiled tires 11.23 @ 126.5
third and final pass, dead off the brake/ no gas, hooked better (1.75 60' lol) but boiled tires when boost reached around 16 psi.
11.01 @ 127 mph
60' 1.754
330 4.726
1/8 7.154 @ 101.52
1000 9.244


Anyway, back to the question, injectors or boost the pump? Here are the PL files for last two passes. My concern is the Inj DC# hitting 91.5. I have 60# inj w/ updated Caspers wiring harness and DW300 pump, hot wired, grounded at the battery, and all in the tank wiring harness upgraded as well, stock lines. Im not getting the 1/1 rise in FP matching boost. Could that be why my DC is high? I know 60#'s are good for mid 10's (based on my MPH im knocking on the door) Everything else looked OK to me.

So.... 80# inj? KB Boost a pump? Caspers voltage booster (running Razors Alky single nozzle, Ive heard good and bad about using together with Caspers VB)

Combo is the 87 GN in my sig

*edit: base FP is 45 psi with vac off per Extreme chip, 2nd PL log doesnt have inj DC, forgot to hit record on laptop (oops) and used Scanmaster G log

With better traction I'd like to come up on the boost but didnt want to push my luck yesterday. As far as goals, I dont have any other than ring the guts outa what Ive got and see how fast it goes.

Thanks Gentlemen

If your not getting 1.1 rise with the fp something is wrong.throwing more parts at it is not the answer.i would verify volts to the pump after that I would pull it.what is the fp at wot?and what is the Afr?i have maxed a 60lb injector and they can go real far with a strong pump and volts plus you are running a single nozzle.i can t view you file.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Isnt IDC from the ppowerlogger inaccurate? Showing higher than itnactually is.

 

[Wright 63]

Instead of throwing parts at it , I would first check DC volts at the back of the alternator ( motor running ). It should be over 13vdc or you will not even charge the battery ( you are at 12.6-12.7v in the log @ full boost ), If you have 13+v there , move to the battery , and then down the line to the pump . I would load the system down by turning on all accessories (all lights , blower motor , even wipers ) and do the same checks . Let us know what you come up with and lets get the proper voltage to start with . Sam

Sorry, I guess that would've been useful info. When I tested last night at home I had;

140 amp Alt: no load 14.7v, load 14.5v
Batt: no load 14.7v, load 14.5v
pump: no load 14v, load 13.7v
load being, all lights, radio, blower and dual GN1 fans

 

[Mike T]

Isnt IDC from the ppowerlogger inaccurate? Showing higher than itnactually is.

I think it's fairly close from my experience. Compared duty cycle to dyno chart and the math worked out. PL showed low 90's duty cycle for 60's and made 450 to the tire on the dyno.

 

[Wright 63]

If your not getting 1.1 rise with the fp something is wrong.throwing more parts at it is not the answer.i would verify volts to the pump after that I would pull it.what is the fp at wot?and what is the Afr?i have maxed a 60lb injector and they can go real far with a strong pump and volts plus you are running a single nozzle.i can t view you file.

3rd gear, 5850 RPM, FP 61.8, AFR 10.44, 24psi boost
Reason i suggested boosting voltage to pump, after doing a search I saw on another post where a few others are having to do the same on the DW 300 to get the 1/1 rise

 

[Mr.Spool]

3rd gear, 5850 RPM, FP 61.8, AFR 10.44, 24psi boost
Reason i suggested boosting voltage to pump, after doing a search I saw on another post where a few others are having to do the same on the DW 300 to get the 1/1 rise

Yup seen this before low fp at wot.that going to needs immediate attention.if the volts check out back to the pump I would pull it and replace don't let the wideband Afr fool you it's pretty far from the action and doesn't show what going on with the individual cylinders.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I ran a jays racing pump pro series when the walboro 340 wasn't producing enough wot fp.the pro series 340 is similar to the dw300 but stronger.fp went from low to mid 60s to 85psi with no other changes.all on a 60lb injector which ran strong to 5bar turns out at he time the alky was saving the motor.

 

[Wright 63]

Yup seen this before low fp at wot.that going to needs immediate attention.if the volts check out back to the pump I would pull it and replace don't let the wideband Afr fool you it's pretty far from the action and doesn't show what going on with the individual cylinders.

OK, thanks, Ill look into it. Thats not what I wanted to hear tho, haha! I just bought the DW300. Has less than 100 miles and 3, 1/4 mile passes on it.

 

[ttypewhite]

It looks like you have out grown your fuel system. The good news is your car makes decent power. I can't read your log to see how much boost you are running, but you don't have much latitude to try more. I would first start with just replacing your fuel regulator and see where things stand when you are getting a true 1 to 1 increase. You are pretty much where your pump and injectors would be. The mph indicates this car should run 10.50's to a high 10.40 if you can address the traction issues, or driver error issues lol. I ran 10.61@126mph with a decent sixty foot back in the 90's so that should give you a indication of where you should be.

One fix would be to buy Razors alky kit which would drop your injector duty cycle substantially and allow you to keep the pump, wiring and injectors you are currently running. Should be good to 9.80 to 9.90

Two, revamp your fuel system. Sell your pump, injectors and hot wire kit. Buy a set of 83lb injectors, double pumper, line kit (or at least the return line to a #6) and hot wire kit.

I wouldn't spend money on a voltage reg with your current set up. There is not much room for growth there to warrant that. Use the money for that, and add to a safer upgrade with room to spare. Ideally you want to be no higher then a 80% duty cycle.

 

[Wright 63]

It looks like you have out grown your fuel system. The good news is your car makes decent power. I can't read your log to see how much boost you are running, but you don't have much latitude to try more. I would first start with just replacing your fuel regulator and see where things stand when you are getting a true 1 to 1 increase. You are pretty much where your pump and injectors would be. The mph indicates this car should run 10.50's to a high 10.40 if you can address the traction issues, or driver error issues lol. I ran 10.61@126mph with a decent sixty foot back in the 90's so that should give you a indication of where you should be.

One fix would be to buy Razors alky kit which would drop your injector duty cycle substantially and allow you to keep the pump, wiring and injectors you are currently running. Should be good to 9.80 to 9.90

Two, revamp your fuel system. Sell your pump, injectors and hot wire kit. Buy a set of 83lb injectors, double pumper, line kit (or at least the return line to a #6) and hot wire kit.

I wouldn't spend money on a voltage reg with your current set up. There is not much room for growth there to warrant that. Use the money for that, and add to a safer upgrade with room to spare. Ideally you want to be no higher then a 80% duty cycle.

Driver issues are always suspect when I'm wheel'n one, haha! It was a "Street Fights" event not a test and tune. Very minimal prep and no good rubber being laid down.

Boost was 23 psi but had 1psi creep right at the end

I had a new Accufab on it then switched to another known good Kirbans reg. Same result.

I already have Razor's single nozzle. Gain on 6

And your're right, I wish Id just went with a dbl pmpr lol

 

[Mr.Spool]

OK, thanks, Ill look into it. Thats not what I wanted to hear tho, haha! I just bought the DW300. Has less than 100 miles and 3, 1/4 mile passes on it.

Looking at the chart for the dw300 it should wake right up with a volt booster and 15+ volts.

 

[turbo89]

I think it's fairly close from my experience. Compared duty cycle to dyno chart and the math worked out. PL showed low 90's duty cycle for 60's and made 450 to the tire on the dyno.

Not what I've seen .. its at least 10% off everytime I've compared ..

 

[turbo89]

Looking at the chart for the dw300 it should wake right up with a volt booster and 15+ volts.

Agreed .. with good clean power and a booster there is no reason that pump cant go 130 .. its done it many times on other cars with no issue.

figure out the rise issue on the fuel system .. once you do turn the wick up and get some seat time .. mid 10's and 130 is in the bag with that setup

 

[Mr.Spool]

Agreed .. with good clean power and a booster there is no reason that pump cant go 130 .. its done it many times on other cars with no issue.

figure out the rise issue on the fuel system .. once you do turn the wick up and get some seat time .. mid 10's and 130 is in the bag with that setup

The wot fp is what's bothering me I'm not concerned about the duty cycle because he could-add another nozzle and have more than enough.

 

[turbo89]

The wot fp is what's bothering me I'm not concerned about the duty cycle because he could-add another nozzle and have more than enough.

Ufff.. ok that is one I would hate to see put in place .. I can't with good conscience suggest supplementing a fuel system defect with alky ...

I know people do it .. and I know they get away with it ... I just cant bring myself to try it or dare to suggest that to a customer.. but I guess that's what makes the world go around.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Ufff.. ok that is one I would hate to see put in place .. I can't with good conscience suggest supplementing a fuel system defect with alky ...

I know people do it .. and I know they get away with it ... I just cant bring myself to try it or dare to suggest that to a customer.. but I guess that's what makes the world go around.

Done it both ways it's a comfort thing.80lb injector dialed back for the alky supplement or a 60lb with the alky on top.they both work real good and with 2 nozzles the bigger injector does get cut way back so it's a wash.but the op does need more wot fp before he thinks further down the road.

 

[Wright 63]

Thanks for the input guys.
I was happy with the way it ran. Its 100% street car....17" wheels, sway bar, (which dont help the traction issues at all!) full weight, all option hard top...spare tire and all! Spent a lot of time using the search function on here before the build, thats for sure!

Not sure if I want the extra headache of dual nozzle alky.

After talking with DW (they straight away recommended a boost a pump) and a couple of DW guys here on the board at length today, I think we've come up with a few things to try.
1) For IDC reading 91.5%, I'm raising base fuel pressure from 45psi to 50psi vac off. Not sure about how this will effect the 1/1 rise, but....
2) Its possible I could have a grounding issue in concern to FP rise. The ScanMasterG is showing .4 richer than the PLX DM6 gauge and what the module is showing on the PowerLogger. I noticed it when comparing the two logs today. One was recorded on the laptop, the other was downloaded from the SCMG via Bluetooth. The SCMG log showed AFR 10.44 (which is what the SCMG gauge was showing) but WB correction factor was adding 6% because it was using the data sent from PLX module to PowerLogger. Thats what caught my attention, why was it adding fuel if it was rich. After Talking with, Bob B he said one thing that could cause this problem on the SCMG reading being different is bad ground. Just so happens, the FP transducer and SCMG are grounded together. Maybe grasping at straws but worth a shot.... its cheap haha

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Just so happens, the FP transducer and SCMG are grounded together.

Grounded where?