engine decision?

[91dime]

Im going to build a 3.8 for my s10. I have a turbo and intercooler from a gnx, but I dont have the engine yet. I need help deciding on what engine to go with. Im thinking I should go with a 78-83 turbo engine becouse im going to run an accel dfi system, and im not very experienced with the DIS ignition systems. What kind of boost can a 3.8 handle, i was planning on going with forged pistons and arp studs, stock crank and rods. Can you get 4 blt main caps for these engines? Im new to these engines so any help would be great, thanks.

 

[SouthernCal GN]

If you have a turbo and IC from a GNX, you might want to wrap it up and put it up in the closet....

Your could save yourself some grief and do it the easy way- buy a complete 86/87 engine (they're available all the time) with harness and ECM, pull your old stuff, and drop in the 3.8. Do some research, and you'll find that it's not too hard to wring some serious power from these engines. Factor in the lighter weight of your truck, and you're in for an E-ticket ride.....

 

[tthorngen]

i wouldn't even bother with going with anything under 86. Would save you money in the long run to go with a 86-87 in the first place.
As for the GNX intercooler and turbo... they didnt make many GNX's. A used crusty old gnx turbo just sold for over 1000 bucks on ebay and a intercooler i would imagine would go for more. You can get aftermarket things... NEW items for far cheaper then GNX goods. You may not even have to get a turbo or intercooler separately if you buy the engine complete with accessory's. How fast are you planning on going?

You can buy complete engines on eBay or call Brian at GBodyParts.com Online.

 

[SS/GNX]

I just started this same process about a month ago. I have a monte carlo and decided I wanted a GN setup. Listen to them and buy an 86/87 GN motor, then anything else you would need you can post for in the wanted section on this board. I have gotten EVERYTHING.

I started actually working on my car 2 weeks ago and I now have my old engine and trans out, the new engine in, and pretty much everything hooked up and ready to go besides a couple little things like A/C and power steering!

Its not a bad project, although im sure an S-10 might be a little more tricky than another g-body.

Anyway, listen to them and get an engine. Put a post for one in the parts wanted section in the board here, that is what I did and I got a fantastic engine for a GREAT price!

 

[91dime]

I was wrong about the turbo and intercooler being off a gnx, it was off a grand national. I would really like to use a 86-86 engine, Ill look throught the for sale adds and post a want add if there isnt anything. I know there arent any grand nationals sitting around here in the junk yards or anythign i can pick a engine out of so it will have to be shipped. Whats a price range that they run in?Arent all the turbo charged engines that are 84 and up have sqfi? Thanks alot for the help, I really apreciate it.

 

[SouthernCal GN]

You should be able to find a complete stock 86/87 engine (tin to tin, including turbo, IC, manifolds, downipe, etc) for anywhere from 2K to 4K. Add the harness= about $200.

 

[91dime]

What about a non turbo engine. Im going to pull it apart and build it up, so would a non turbo be ok? Are the blocks and heads the same? I can gte a non turbo 3.8 for dirt cheap at the local junk yards so thats why im asking

 

[91dime]

I forgot to ask, do the parts from a non turbo engine interchange with a turbo engine, like heads, intake, crank, rods, and pistons? I know some are internally balanced and some externally. I know you guys think a grand national engine is the way to go, but for the price i can build a NA motor that will be able to handle some boost for the price of a grand national engine. Im a newbie to these , so thanks for the help.

 

[SouthernCal GN]

You make no sense- you can build a N/A engine that will handle some boost...

Gotta think about that one.

My opinion- you're trying to reinvent that which is already proven to work, and work well. Get your head out of the small block chevy mentality- this is a whole 'nother ball game. Trying to go cheap will cost you 2x or 3x as much in the long run.......

Search the TR boards- the $$ I gave out were only guidelines. I've seen cheaper.

 

[Underboost]

What about a non turbo engine. Im going to pull it apart and build it up, so would a non turbo be ok? Are the blocks and heads the same? I can gte a non turbo 3.8 for dirt cheap at the local junk yards so thats why im asking

Look for a 109 V6 Block then have it tapped for the oil drain line coming down from the turbo. Use Steel Mains and a Steel Billet Crank for insurance.

 

[91dime]

Look for a 109 V6 Block then have it tapped for the oil drain line coming down from the turbo. Use Steel Mains and a Steel Billet Crank for insurance.

What cars did that engine come in?

 

[SS/GNX]

I forgot to ask, do the parts from a non turbo engine interchange with a turbo engine, like heads, intake, crank, rods, and pistons? I know some are internally balanced and some externally. I know you guys think a grand national engine is the way to go, but for the price i can build a NA motor that will be able to handle some boost for the price of a grand national engine. Im a newbie to these , so thanks for the help.

SoCal is right 91Dime, quit trying to reinvent the wheel.
Something you need to realize is all the GN parts are expensive... ALL of them.. So you think you are going to be better off putting one together, but you are dead wrong.

You are MUCH better off getting that motor with EVERYTHING you possibly can on it. Think of it as a package deal... if you have to buy all the little things seperately its going to nickle and dime you to death and easily cost you $1000 more in the end.

I have built cars in the past, and trying to get away with things to save money is going to KILL you and cost you more than you ever thought.

Buy and 86/87 COMPLETE GN motor... NOTHING ELSE. unless you want a migrane and and empty wallet, checking account, savings account, and credit card debt up the @ss!

Sorry if this comes off harsh, but I once thought like you did and paid for it..
Do it right the first time and it will save you money.

3 weeks ago I found a 87 GN engine, complete with only 5K miles on it for $2500... I got a DEAL, but you too should be able to find something.
Be patient and look everywhere. The boards, ebay, racingjunk, craigslist, etc.

Bring somebody who knows their sh!t with you to look at them or have them send you DETAILED pictures and even video of the engine running.... I did that for someone I sold my 355 SBC to!

Heres what I picked up 3 weeks ago... should be some motivation...

 

[SouthernCal GN]

SoCal is right 91Dime, quit trying to reinvent the wheel.
Something you need to realize is all the GN parts are expensive... ALL of them.. So you think you are going to be better off putting one together, but you are dead wrong.

You are MUCH better off getting that motor with EVERYTHING you possibly can on it. Think of it as a package deal... if you have to buy all the little things seperately its going to nickle and dime you to death and easily cost you $1000 more in the end.

I have built cars in the past, and trying to get away with things to save money is going to KILL you and cost you more than you ever thought.

Buy and 86/87 COMPLETE GN motor... NOTHING ELSE. unless you want a migrane and and empty wallet, checking account, savings account, and credit card debt up the @ss!

Sorry if this comes off harsh, but I once thought like you did and paid for it..
Do it right the first time and it will save you money.

3 weeks ago I found a 87 GN engine, complete with only 5K miles on it for $2500... I got a DEAL, but you too should be able to find something.
Be patient and look everywhere. The boards, ebay, racingjunk, craigslist, etc.

Bring somebody who knows their sh!t with you to look at them or have them send you DETAILED pictures and even video of the engine running.... I did that for someone I sold my 355 SBC to!

Heres what I picked up 3 weeks ago... should be some motivation...

View attachment 26111

View attachment 26112

Nothing personal, but YOU SUCK!!!

Of course, you may lose your status of "suckiness" if you'd be so kind as to ship that engine to me ASAP...I'll be sure to get your status of "cool" reinstated!



Nice find! Who'd ya have to kill?

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Here's some math (2 versions):

#1- junkyard block buildup

$300- Block
$200- Steel main caps
$100- Bearings
$500- Turbo crank w/ pistons and rods
$800- Machine work
$700- Roller cam kit
$125- Engine gasket kit
$200- Head work
$200- 86/87 stock intake
$200- 86/87 headers
$500- intercooler/piping/clamps
$200- downpipe
$400- Decent used turbo
$4400+ (and we're just collecting major parts)

#2- used turbo engine (complete)

$2200- complete running engine, including turbo, downpipe, all electrical/electronic
$250- wiring harness with ECM
$2500 + the usual little crap (brake clean, RTV, etc)

Yes- I know that the number can be skewed in either scenario. Yes, i know that things can be done cheaper.

The point is- when it all comes down to it, putting out the extra $$ upfront for a complete 86/87 just makes sense. There are many parts that could be included on the complete assembly that would cost you 3x as much separately (alt/AC bracket, headers, turbo crank, etc...).

Been there, done that. Hope you take the collective experience of those who have had wallets lightened with this sick obsession, and use it as your wisdom.........

 

[SouthernCal GN]

2 further points of advice:

1) Call Brian at gbodyparts. Straight shooter, and a great guy.

2) Good luck in your build, however you do it. I will advise you, though, that your suggested course of action (building a turbo engine on the cheap) will gain you membership into a very exclusive club- the DOTCC.


Drive Over The Crankshaft Club

shiny parts all over the sidewalk...........


You REALLY don't want to go there......

 

[91dime]

Well I guess im going to start looking for a GN engine. I will probally just freshen it up with new pistons, maybe get arp studs through the engine, nothing outrageous. Is that a good idea?

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Good idea, yes, Necessary, no. If you get a good running engine, one that has no drama, you could conceivably just drop it in and have great results:

some numbers:

1987 Turbo Regal, weight 3700 lbs; stock 245 hp:
1/4 mile ET: 14.3 @ 95 mph

Your S-10 pickup, est weight 2700 lbs, with a TR 3.8 @ 245 hp:
1/4 mil ET 12.9 @ 105 mph

Free up the intake, exhaust, a bit more boost, and maybe alky- then your problem will be traction, and getting the car caged.....

Don't fix what ain't broke! If the heads have neve been off the engine, don't break the factory head gasket seal! You'll never be able to replicate the factory machine that can torque all 8 bolts at once. Putting ARP hardware in the engine is a great thing, if you're going into the engine anyway. Otherwise, I recommend just finding a really good runnig engine, installing it, and enjoying the rush...

 

[91dime]

I know this has been asked before, but how much boost have you guys seen on a stock gn engine?

 

[xXch0dyXx]

im running 22-23 psi all day with no problems, and i know many have run more

 

[SouthernCal GN]

I've had as high as 23# on a stock block.....

My current setup is at 25-27; but, it's not exactly stock