E85 Goo, How To Say Goo Bye To It!!

[GNVYUS 1]

Haven't been on the boards much or driving the GN (at all) but I noticed no one's talking about how to help those of us that had the Goo issue cure it. Over the past few years this issue has been all over the net and a bunch of issues have been identified and cured. I should've figured part of this out, answer was starring me in the face, here we goo.....

1) The Goo is formed from a Petroleum Molecule that when heated up, turns into the goo (tar like) substance. (there are theories on how it gets in the fuel, but if you're reading this who cares, it's in your fuel)

2) Kill the molecule by using the Lucas Oil E85 Safeguard treatment.
https://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=335&catid=8

3) Certain external fuel pumps don't heat up the fuel enough to start the goo process because the fuel doesn't run through their pump motors cavity (unlike the internal pump where it does). Instead these better externals have the fuel run through a self contained armature separate from the pump motor (way less heat).

4) Internal fuel pumps not only radiate heat into the E85 fuel, but the process of fuel getting sucked into the pump causes the fuel to potentially boil during WOT conditions further adding way more heat.

5) By the time this heated fuel gets to your hot injector tip, the goo molecules are just looking for something to cling to and continuously form on.

I run E85 in the GN (internal fuel pump)= Goo Galore
I run E85 in my GTO (external Magnafuel) = No Goo

Both were getting the fuel from the same stations, I pulled my hair out wondering WTF??

There is a post online where a member took a vile of E85 and added the Lucas, he noted it cleared up the deposits pretty quickly. A big E85 carburetor shop was having issues and the Lucas cleared them up on the carbs he builds and it's about a year of continuous success. Using the Lucas E85 Safeguard is where I'd start if you're having the issue, from here it's clear the internal fuel pump is the 2nd biggest contributor since it's heating up the fuel to get things gooey.

Goo Bye

 

[John Larkin]

What goo?

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

So you are running an oil treatment in your gas?

 

[696]

The "common" fix here is every 3 months or so run a tank of 93 through it. I usually don't but I do store it with 93 in the tank for the winter months.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

After some reading it seems like many are attributing the goo to using old diesel tanks to house E85.

 

[karolko]

Mike, what Magnafuel pump are you using? MP-4301.
I ask because i am running an external but I know Mangafuel offers two types of externals, one where the fuel flows through the motor ( inline) and one like the Weldon's where the motor is situated perpendicular to the flow of the fuel.









Thanks a lot in advance

 

[626gn]

Very interesting. I will add...the "goo" is just one of the common misconceptions of Ethanol. Everyone who has encountered problems running Ethanol are quick to blame it as the cause, and I can understand why. But its the other unknown additive(s) that may be added to the fuel (along with Ethanol) that is the real source of problems, not the Ethanol itself. Good post!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Hey John, well if you aren't seeing any Goo that's great. The goo is the petroleum molecule that when heated up builds up on our injector tips. It literally looks like tar and gums up the injector and takes out your headgasket at best, plenty of engines getting F'd up by the Goo (tar). I included a random pic I found on the internet when I typed in "Grand National Injector E85 Goo".

Rafs T Type, the companies name is Lucas Oil Products Inc, so it might seem like an oil additive but the link is for the E85 fuel stabilizer.

Karolko, the GTO has been running the Magnafuel Prostar 500 series MP-4450 pump for years now (getting a supercharger someday). It's a bad boy and because the fuel was not being heated initially by the intank pump, then by going through the pump motor the GTO never saw any goo even though the molecule was clearly in my fill ups of E85. So just by going to an external pump with the separate self contained armature, that will probably stop the goo alone. Hell I've seen some run fuel coolers so that's even an option if the Lucas doesn't kill it all.

But, the Lucas E85 Safeguard should kill off all the molecules and is much cheaper in the end to just pour in a couple of ounces at every fill up. Cleaning injectors and baskets every Spring is way more expensive.

 

[John Larkin]

$8 treats 25 gallons. Not outrageous. And you'll be supporting our stadium!

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

$8 treats 25 gallons. Not outrageous. And you'll be supporting our stadium!

The following says 80 gallons for $7.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10576-Safeguard-Conditioner/dp/B004FW77F0#productDetails

Buy the 12 pack they offer and you're down to $6.25.

EDIT: Somehow I missed the shipping charge. With shipping it's $12.47 from Amazon.

EDIT 2: It looks like you can get it at walmart for $8.97 + tax.

 

[CGASTON]

The following says 80 gallons for $7.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10576-Safeguard-Conditioner/dp/B004FW77F0#productDetails

Buy the 12 pack they offer and you're down to $6.25.

Same price at Oreilly Auto parts


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[horndog]

To make we are comparing apples to apples are you running the Lucas additive in both cars?


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[87chrisss]

I have never had this issue ever? I have been running E85 for a very long time. I understand thats a pic you found do you have an actual pic of your injectors?

What fuel lines you running? What filter you using?

 

[Nick Micale]

When I was at the SEMA show last week, talking to some "fuel experts" about the care and use of E-85 was much more valuable and credible info than I have been able to find on the net

The info from Sta-Bil, Joe Gibbs Driven and Lucas reps was very similar, but I was more impressed by the Sta-Bil reps, and they were kind enough to send me the info below about a new product not yet on the market.

Since Sta-Bil has been in this market much longer than any other company, my confidence is extremely high with their knowledge and experience and their willingness to share this info.


America’s #1 Selling Fuel Stabilizer Introduces STA-BIL 360°
to Deliver Corrosion Protection Above and Below the Fuel Line
Revolutionary New STA-BIL Product Provides Highest Level of Corrosion Protection
on the Market with New Vapor-Releasing Formula
November 5, 2013 (Chicago, Ill.) – Gold Eagle Co., makers of America’s #1 selling brand of fuel stabilizers and ethanol treatments, STA-BIL®, is today unveiling an innovative new product called STA-BIL® 360° Protection Ethanol Treatment and Fuel Stabilizer (“STA-BIL 360°”). Designed to combat the corrosive properties of today’s ethanol-blended fuels, STA-BIL 360° is the first ethanol treatment to deliver comprehensive corrosion protection above and below the fuel line through revolutionary, new chemistry.
“We’re proud to introduce STA-BIL 360°’s comprehensive corrosion protection formula to the marketplace for the very first time, offering an entirely new way to protect the fuel system,” said Marc Blackman, president and CEO of Gold Eagle Co. “STA-BIL 360° builds off STA-BIL’s strong brand reputation and category leader position to deliver an innovative, unmatched product that we believe is a game-changer in the fuel additives category.”
To meet the demands of consumers seeking ultimate performance, STA-BIL scientists developed this innovative product to deliver comprehensive corrosion protection. When added to fuel, STA-BIL 360° releases a vapor inside the fuel system that coats all metal parts including the fuel tank, fuel sending unit, valves, carburetor, fuel injectors and intake manifold. Offering 360 corrosion protection, STA-BIL 360° is safe and recommended for use in all types of gasoline from ethanol-free fuel to E85 blends.
“We designed STA-BIL 360° for our most discerning customers seeking the utmost level of protection for their investments from classic automobiles to vintage motorcycles collectors,” said Tom
Bingham, director of marketing for Gold Eagle Co. “There are thousands of classic vehicle owners today, who are keen on practicing proper fuel management and understand the financial repercussions of corrosion. With the introduction of STA-BIL 360°, we’re able to offer customers a dynamic selection of premium and trusted fuel stabilizers and ethanol treatments for their every need.”
Delivering ultimate year-round protection, STA-BIL 360° is recommended for use at every fill-up in all gasoline engines. Available in 12 ounce bottles, STA-BIL 360° treats up to 60 gallons of gasoline and will retail for approximately $25.99. STA-BIL 360° is currently available to retailers for pre-order by contacting 800-367-3245. Consumers will be able to purchase STA-BIL 360° at select retail stores nationwide in early 2014.
STA-BIL 360° joins the brand’s suite of category-leading fuel stabilizers and ethanol treatments, which feature new labels with ‘signal’ words that help customers identify the best STA-BIL product for their needs. New labels include:

 STORAGE – STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer is designed for use during off-season storage in all vehicles and equipment to protect against gum, varnish formation and corrosion in the fuel lines and engine.

 PROTECTION – STA-BIL Ethanol Fuel Treatment and Stabilizer protects engines against the harmful effects of ethanol in today’s gasoline and is intended for use at every fill-up in vehicles and small gasoline powered equipment.

 MARINE – Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Fuel Treatment and Stabilizer is intended for use at every fill-up in boats, jet skis or other marine equipment and contains double the corrosion preventers and four times the fuel system cleaner to protect sensitive marine engines.

 DIESEL – Diesel Formula STA-BIL keeps diesel fuel fresh, promotes thermal oxidative stability, protects against corrosion and removes water from the fuel system to protect diesel engines.

Learn more about STA-BIL products at www.sta-bil.com or join the STA-BIL community at www.Facebook.com/STABILBrand.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

Any more info from them, besides product promotion? Also I don't see why you need to use sta-bil 360 every time you fill up if it's coating everything in the fuel system. Also it says it does so be releasing a gas, but how is that going to help parts of the fuel system that never see air?

 

[Nick Micale]

..................Also it says it does so be releasing a gas, but how is that going to help parts of the fuel system that never see air?

One item that does "see air" is the top portion of the fuel tank that will rust or have contaminates form there?

On cars using a carb, lots of air pockets in the bowls which corrode quickly with water in there.

Maybe the turbo owners with carbs would be interested if they run E-85, and I know many local carb guys in various cars, including a Buick, running E-85.

 

[87chrisss]

I prefer to go by my own personal experience. I wont put any of that junk in my fuel. Ive been using that fuel alot longer than stabil has been making a conditioner for it. Anyone can sell you a dream or maybe reality of why it might work. But just like you put it on most of your comments Nick cant replace years of experience. That nice promo ad there aint selling me a thing. Sorry.. Experience means alot more than that nice promo you know that.

 

[87chrisss]

Regarding the OP.

Question did you use the same gas tank that you were using pump gas in?

 

[Nick Micale]

I prefer to go by my own personal experience. I wont put any of that junk in my fuel. Ive been using that fuel alot longer than stabil has been making a conditioner for it. Anyone can sell you a dream or maybe reality of why it might work. But just like you put it on most of your comments Nick cant replace years of experience. That nice promo ad there aint selling me a thing. Sorry.. Experience means alot more than that nice promo you know that.

Unlike you Chris, I have an open mind and am always want to learn more to provide the best for myself and my customers.

I am not "selling" you, or anyone anything, but just adding info to a discussion, and like most people you also have a choice to dis-reguard it.

When a person uses the word "junk" to describe a product he has never used, that shows a very biased position.

 

[87chrisss]

Maybe junk was a bad choice of words. I agree.. But you don't need it.

I know the reason why that happen to the op or can give him an idea why that might have happened to him.

1. Betcha he probably has the same stock filter on it and hasn't changed it in a while.

2.If it was the same tank he used his regular pump gas in, there is a chance he never thoroughly cleaned it before the swap.
Why you ask?
Sediment from pump gas loves to hang out on the bottom of your tank... Let it dry out and it coats the tank with sediment. Guess what the Ethanol does to that sediment yep..Breaks it down and causes the sediment to dissolve that's the junk you see in the pic.


What are the 3 most known Ethanol problems,
1. Fuel pump goes out.
2. Fuel filter clogged with mysterious GOOO & the filter is brownish or blackish
3. Clogged injectors.