E85 Coming to So Cal.

[Pablo]

Finally after years of having only ONE e85 station in the state open to the public, So Cal is getting a few more stations in the North County San Diego area. One is in Carlsbad and one in Oceanside (for the locals)

It looks like both stations are under construction at the moment, fortunately they are both fairly close to where I live so I hope to be joining you all in the E85 movement soon. I'm really excited about it.

I think I am going to try running E85, no intercooler, and alky injection (possibly just e85) pre turbo like WWII fighters did. Much more effective that way.

We'll see what happens.

 

[86george]

Finally after years of having only ONE e85 station in the state open to the public, So Cal is getting a few more stations in the North County San Diego area. One is in Carlsbad and one in Oceanside (for the locals)

It looks like both stations are under construction at the moment, fortunately they are both fairly close to where I live so I hope to be joining you all in the E85 movement soon. I'm really excited about it.

I think I am going to try running E85, no intercooler, and alky injection (possibly just e85) pre turbo like WWII fighters did. Much more effective that way.

We'll see what happens.

Good deal. I think you'll like the E85. I've not heard of spraying pre turbo before. Do you think the 15% gas stock would go through the turbo with out causeing a problem? I spray in the up pipe. Let us know how that pre turbo spray works out. Good luck with it.

 

[RWTD]

I wish we'd get more E85 in AL, or at least on the Gulf Coast area of here. I think there is only currently a couple of stations, and none are in the southern area.

 

[jamnut]

I think I am going to try running E85, no intercooler, and alky injection (possibly just e85) pre turbo like WWII fighters did. Much more effective that way.

We'll see what happens.

I don't think that Pre-Turbo alky injection is going to help much at all. The Methanol is used to bring down your intake charge after it's been raised by compressing the air with your turbo. You should get much better cooling with alky after turbo, not pre turbo.

 

[RWTD]

I don't think that Pre-Turbo alky injection is going to help much at all. The Methanol is used to bring down your intake charge after it's been raised by compressing the air with your turbo. You should get much better cooling with alky after turbo, not pre turbo.

That is 100% correct. Always spray post-compression.

 

[Pablo]

Uh, no, I suggest reading some NACA papers on the use of methanol or water injection pre turbo. A pre turbo system improves turbo efficiency. Theres plenty of data out there, google it. If it didnt it wouldnt have been used on thousands of piston fighter aircraft in wwII

 

[RWTD]

Uh, no, I suggest reading some NACA papers on the use of methanol or water injection pre turbo. A pre turbo system improves turbo efficiency. Theres plenty of data out there, google it. If it didnt it wouldnt have been used on thousands of piston fighter aircraft in wwII

A post compression system will also improve efficiency of the compressor. Meth is best injected post-compressor, period.

 

[RWTD]

I discussed this with my friend black2003cobra (Prof. Eng.). Pablo, as you said, alcohol and water injection was indeed used on aircraft engines to reduce pre-ignition/detonation (for the usual reasons), primarily under high load during take off (added weight of such prohibited full time use, obviously). This is discussed in Edward Taylor's book (former MIT aero professor).

Anyway, if you have any technical articles discussing pre versus post turbo injection, I'd love for you to point me to the references.

BTW, if you're already using E85 as your fuel, why do you want to "spray" it in addition? Just richen the AFR to get the additional cooling effect.

 

[Pablo]

A post compression system will also improve efficiency of the compressor. Meth is best injected post-compressor, period.

You're wrong, period.

There are a number of papers available online documenting the benefits of pre turbo alcohol/ water injection, and documenting the mechanism by which it works. I don't have the time right now to give you links. Perhaps on another day, or maybe you'll take it upon yourself to research the subject further.

Post compression does not increase compressor efficiency, efficiency stays the same. The latent heat of the evaporation of methanol or water post turbo is the mechanism allowing more boost because of charge cooling and the octane increase. It doesn't mean that your turbo is more efficient. The turbo itself still requires the same amount of exhaust power to create x amount of boost and air flow. Your friend and yourself may be confused with the practical limits imposed by problems with impeller erosion or puddling in the intercooler if you were to inject a large amount pre turbo. Pre turbo injection however does increase turbo efficiency when implemented correctly. Do your research. Again, I don't have the time nor inclination to show you, especially since you come across as rude and condescending.

And to address your question about adding pre turbo alcohol in addition to running the engine on alcohol. Here is a hint "Erhöhte Notleistung" on the Focke Wulf-190. Gasoline pre supercharger in addition to gasoline running the engine. There is a reason for this. But dont take my word for it, look it up. Might want to look up MW-50 while you are at it.. you'll probably stumble on some naca papers from there. Set aside a few hours to soak it all in.

 

[RWTD]

It's always clear when one does not have any grasp on thermodynamics, regardless of what they think. It's even further enhanced by their inabilities to produce reliable references, all while they continue to spew their rhetoric.

All in all, I don't have any further time to devote to ignorance. Facts are stubborn things...

 

[Pablo]

I gave you enough hints to find the information yourself. I'm not going to spoon feed you information unless you want to pay for my services as a consultant.

 

[Pablo]

for the other members of the forum interested in pre turbo injection here is a thread with some good information

Waterinjection ::

 

[Ttype6]

Thank you Pablo for being one of the very few who have brought this fact to the Turbo Buick community. Like all communities we tend to think alike and poo poo anything new and untried. Through out the history of man new truths are seldom embraced. The problem here is that this truth is very old and very tried. Here it is 6 months after your last post and I've just been introduced to the facts of pre-turbo water injection from another Buick member. The rest of the forced induction world is all over this but we sit here in our own community and most of us inject 100% meth after the turbo. In our community and all others most are followers,not thinkers. If everybody thinks the same no one is thinking. As with all newly introduced truths this one will catch on eventually. I found this thread by going to Google. Man am I excited about this summer.